Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Where nature may win

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  • Kracklite,

    Gallows humour, methinks, and with the clear subtext that this is reality and not a movie in response to people who can't tell the difference and vultures in the media who want to make it one. Still, I certainly take your point.

    The Library of Babel • Since Nov 2007 • 982 posts Report Reply

  • Andre Alessi, in reply to Tom Semmens,

    We have a situation where the police are running the operation, but then it appears they are not running anything to do with the actual rescue, even though they front foot the press conferences…

    Well yes, that’s why you fly experts in, instead of getting one person to do everything like you would in, say, some bizarre macho fantasy. The police are managing the coordination and communication, but they are delegating specific tasks to others who have the experience to accomplish what is required. Or would you rather that P.C. Plod from Timaru be set up with a couple of tin cans and a radio controlled car and be told to “do your best, mate!”

    And don’t get me started on the horrors involved in getting engineers to coordinate or communicate anything.

    Devonport, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 864 posts Report Reply

  • johnno,

    I'm still surprised that the robot wasn't waterproof. Do terrorists only work when it's fine?

    wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 111 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    I would have thought that if you were running a mining business you might be aware of the risks and the best ways to alleviate those risks. Maybe even spend some of your set-up cash on equipment to cope with those risks when they arise, as long as it didn't eat into your shareholders dividends that is.
    I wonder how things at Chernobyl would have worked out if they considered it unsafe to send workers into the heart of the beast?
    Meanwhile, in that country that, apparently has no respect for human life or rights, they rescued their 29 miners within a day or so. Here in Godzone the Police are reticent to allow anyone to enter a liquor store to save a dying man, just in case the armed offender was hanging about for some unknown reason, perhaps reading the Herald.
    Sometimes it is risky to rescue but that is the job.

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • Lucy Stewart, in reply to Steve Barnes,

    Sometimes it is risky to rescue but that is the job.

    Perhaps you missed the part where a failed rescue could not only kill the rescuers, but the miners.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 2105 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes, in reply to Lucy Stewart,

    Trust me, I have missed none of the speculation, the "What if"s

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • Dismal Soyanz, in reply to johnno,

    Do you actually know how much water the robot encounterd? Or anything about the conditions the robot encountered?

    Not sure that Grey District Mayor Kokshorn exactly covered himself with glory with this question, either

    "I'm only a lay person, my first thoughts were why didn't it have a bit of gladwrap over it.

    No prizes for guessing which outfit thought that was a comment worthy of publication.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2010 • 310 posts Report Reply

  • 3410,

    Any idea why Supt. Knowles thinks that today is "day 3"?

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 2618 posts Report Reply

  • FletcherB, in reply to Steve Barnes,

    Meanwhile, in that country that, apparently has no respect for human life or rights, they rescued their 29 miners within a day or so.

    Ah, the news article I saw on BBC world last night said 22 miners and 7 rescue workers had to be rescued…

    ie. the first rescue attempt failed and endangered more lives.

    West Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 887 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes, in reply to FletcherB,

    Are you suggesting they should have followed the Pike River method?.

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    Sometimes it is risky to rescue but that is the job.

    I think you'll find the job is to take all reasonable risks.

    If you want employees to start taking risks that are judged to be unreasonable, you're going to have to pay them a crapload more.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6243 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    I think you’ll find the job is to take all reasonable risks.

    I would say "take all Necessary risks" and apply cost benefit analysis, risk seven to save 22? your call. I don't think this is the time to discuss wage levels, seems a bit pointless when CEOs of banks and politicians for that matter, get more than anybody in the emergency services or any other worthwhile occupation.

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    Guys: the mine in China had been flooded. There was no buildup of methane to contend with. Let's leave the uninformed spouting about how are rescuers aren't brave enough to the Your Views crowd, eh?

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • Dismal Soyanz,

    And as someone who has been trained for rescue work (albeit of a type completely different from mining) the first thing drummed into us was not to put ourselves in danger. Any risk that cannot be readily contained and avoided is likely to mean we don't go in.

    As for it being the job, as someone pointed out upthread, the job is to help people - and you can't do that if you are incapacitated.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2010 • 310 posts Report Reply

  • Gareth Ward,

    "Why didn't they just waterproof a robot" is possibly one of the stupidest things I've heard. Especially from the same people baying for instant action.

    Auckland, NZ • Since Mar 2007 • 1727 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole, in reply to Dismal Soyanz,

    Any risk that cannot be readily contained and avoided is likely to mean we don’t go in.

    As for it being the job, as someone pointed out upthread, the job is to help people

    Precisely. Even EOD techs are taking considered, calculated risks when they stroll up to a suspected bomb and start poking at it. They've probably x-rayed it, and these days it's often as not a robot that's doing the poking. They may be very much on the borderline of totally batshit crazy, but they're still enough on the not-crazy side to not be suicidal.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2007 • 4097 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    "take all Necessary risks"

    I don't even know what that means. Necessary to make every feel better that something is being done, even though that something is likely to make the situation worse?

    Since Nov 2006 • 6243 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    "Why didn't they just waterproof a robot" is possibly one of the stupidest things I've heard.

    I'm picturing Selleys no more gaps. Apply liberally, obviously.

    I'm also thinking that most people's understanding of what this robot is like comes from Short Circuit.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6243 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole, in reply to Steve Barnes,

    Hate to break it to you, Steve, but emergency services don't think "all necessary risks" is reasonable. The discussion about the liquor store shooting included many reiterations from me of the fundamental rule of emergency response: you are the most important person in the equation. Those around you are a close second, but your arse is not worth sacrificing. Manage risks, avoid exposing yourself to anything that's avoidable, and above all avoid becoming another casualty.
    We're not talking about a military action, where the loss of some lives is an unfortunate, if necessary, trade-off to achieve a strategic objective. Even those lives are weighed before being thrown to the wind, but on a different scale. For rescue work, if you send in six and they succumb do you send in another six to rescue the now-35? And another six? And who wears the outrage for the unnecessary, avoidable deaths? Certainly not keyboard commandos such as yourself and the denizens of Your Views.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2007 • 4097 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    Now I remember why I stopped writing here. Neither passion nor logic.

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole, in reply to Steve Barnes,

    No, just real-world knowledge of how these people think. Sorry it's so boring and destroys your narrative, but some of us have sat through lectures on safety in emergency services work.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2007 • 4097 posts Report Reply

  • SteveH, in reply to Steve Barnes,

    Now I remember why I stopped writing here. Neither passion nor logic.

    2500 posts to reach that conclusion?

    Since Sep 2009 • 444 posts Report Reply

  • Dismal Soyanz,

    @Steve

    Sorry you feel that way. [You know, in the same way celebs are sorry if others take offence at their drivel.]

    I wouldn’t have volunteered to do rescue work if I didn’t have a passion for my fellow human beings, even if some of them are thick as sh*t.

    Seems plenty of logic in most posts. Yours, I am less sure of.

    If you mean lacking com passion because we don’t advocate running in all guns blazing, then you really don’t get it. Do you think rescue teams think “We can’t go in, oh well, what’s on telly?”

    On second thoughts, I’m not really sorry at all.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2010 • 310 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Williams,

    This just went from mildly disturbing to all out inappropriate, IMnsHO.

    Real. Humans. FFS. Show some restraint.

    Quite.

    I'm entirely inexpert on these matters and despite comments upthread about fanciful faith in the authorities, I do assume that everyone charged with this rescue is doing everything they possibly can.

    This is upsetting for everyone even vaguely connected or interested and possibly this distress is getting the better of some commenters?

    Sydney • Since Nov 2006 • 2273 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen, in reply to Dismal Soyanz,

    This is too cool we are going to have Bruce Willis AND William Shatner to help with the rescue?

    Unless Stallone beats them to it.

    Must get autographs ...

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 4432 posts Report Reply

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