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I feel Ayn Rand

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  • Russell Brown,

    And, to be fair, whose lyrical fag-bashing isn't exactly outside the mainstream in Uganda But my point is that if anyone is "tainting" the Pepsi family of beverage brands, Tiger Woods is slipping down the list fairly quickly.

    To be fair, Craig, Pepsi's local bottling affiliate in Uganda sponsored a concert at which Beenie Man appeared -- and Pepsi corporate unreservedly apologised soon afterwards. It's hard to see what else they could have done at a corporate level.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22759 posts Report Reply

  • underscore_b,

    But I'm not finding Keith's own righteous indignation about Woods' fate in the popular media very compelling either. I'm just not outraged, as such, about any of it.

    Oh, neither do I. But on the other hand I can understand their contempt when as you can see here, there was more coverage of Tiger Woods' affairs in 2009 than, y'know, Israel.

    Since Jun 2007 • 18 posts Report Reply

  • pollywog,

    Pepsi's local bottling affiliate in Uganda sponsored a concert at which Beenie Man appeared -- and Pepsi corporate unreservedly apologised soon afterwards.

    seems to be the new way. do something controversial, get the publicity and to hell with the consequences.

    no such thing as bad publicity. give the mob what they want if all it means is an insincere apology afterwards.

    cue lisa lewis, the whaleoil name supression courtcase and the hits he generated post appearance or the unsanctioned obama posing in flash winter jacket billboard.

    somewhere else • Since Dec 2009 • 152 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    It's hard to see what else they could have done at a corporate level.

    Oh, I don't know -- as my late Nana used to say, it's all very nice being sorry but much better to have nothing to be sorry for in the first place. I just have the sneaking suspicion that if RuPaul was on the bill, the affiliate would have been made perfectly well aware that Mr. Charles in an in your face trannie and disassociated himself PDQ.

    While we're on the subject though, do you think there'd be the same grave pronouncements about betraying his family/reputation/fans if he'd been perfectly chaste, but filed for divorce and come out of the closet?

    Aw, everyone knows only dykes are pro golfers. But seriously, yes I do think the sight of Tiger Woods springing out of the closet would open a whole new can of crazy. :)

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • underscore_b,

    seems to be the new way. do something controversial, get the publicity and to hell with the consequences.

    Er, same as the old way?

    Since Jun 2007 • 18 posts Report Reply

  • underscore_b,

    Aw, everyone knows only dykes are pro golfers. But seriously, yes. :)

    I guess what I mean is, would there be the same outbursts of "family man" rhetoric or is it more likely they'd vanish him into obscurity? The great man undone by hubris is an easy narrative; the acknowledged great athlete and masculine role model who enjoys sex with men is significantly more problematic.

    Since Jun 2007 • 18 posts Report Reply

  • bronwyn,

    them africans do have some crazy customs and beliefs though pretty much on a par with american objectivism

    I'm charitably assuming that was an ill thought out throwaway comment.

    tamaki makaurau • Since Nov 2006 • 86 posts Report Reply

  • pollywog,

    i find it dangerous to assume charity:)

    somewhere else • Since Dec 2009 • 152 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    I just have the sneaking suspicion that if RuPaul was on the bill, the affiliate would have been made perfectly well aware that Mr. Charles in an in your face trannie and disassociated himself PDQ.

    You have a point there. If nowt else, some church would have brought it to their attention. I'm guessing the liberal grapevine is a little withered in Uganda.

    I'm assuming you know that the source of Beenie Man's loathsome overcompensation is widely thought to be the career damage he took with his Jamaican audience after he appeared on RuPaul's TV show? There's a symmetry emerging around this ...

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22759 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle,

    Couldn't we just stick to fiction?.... the saddest part is not that we choose "real life", but that we choose to enshrine its stupidest, crassest, most debased stories...

    Where do you think inspiration for fiction comes from, if not 'real life'? *People* are stupid, crass and debased (as well as intelligent, noble and uplifting, at least sometimes).

    As Russell said, this sort of thing isn't at all new. Mass media has enabled us all to gossip uncharitably on an unprecedented scale since the twentieth century - but in the early modern period we gossiped via woodcut and pamphlet. Before the printing press we gossiped from village to village. Famous people doing nutty things are *interesting*. I can't work out what's so ennobling about Random People in New Zealand Bravely Making a Stand to Ignore the Tiger Woods Story. It's like the 'oh, I never watch television because it is EVIL!' folk: my response to that is kind of nonplussed as well. Bully for you, I guess?

    (And here endeth Danielle's Lengthy Self-Justification For Reading Online Gossip Columns. :) )

    ETA: Oh, also: Caleb speaks truth.

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    As Russell said, this sort of thing isn't at all new. Mass media has enabled us all to gossip uncharitably on an unprecedented scale since the twentieth century - but in the early modern period we gossiped via woodcut and pamphlet.

    Good point, actually. The great flowering of literacy in the Victorian era was driven in good part by the salaciousness of court reporting in the newspapers.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22759 posts Report Reply

  • Geoff Lealand,

    But am I the only person who finds the whole ratings argument rather disingenuous?

    No, you are not. Ratings--especially Peoplemeter measurement which is the standard across the globe--are a load of horse-doo. I don't wish to divert this conversation but, on some other occasion, I am happy to argue as to why they are a steaming heap of horse-doo.

    The problem is that whilst there is so much money invested in ratings (eg it costs an estimated $NZ5million a year for AC Nielsen to run the NZ system); so many egos dependent on them, and so little public questioning of such constructions of the TV audience by producers, programme makers and funders (including NZOA), they continue to dominate. I have worked in audience research, and have written a bit about ratings over the years.
    I was pleased to hear Brenda L, from NZ on Screen, having a go at ratings at the SPADA conference last year.

    Screen & Media Studies, U… • Since Oct 2007 • 2539 posts Report Reply

  • Lucy Stewart,

    Good point, actually. The great flowering of literacy in the Victorian era was driven in good part by the salaciousness of court reporting in the newspapers.

    And it's no more or less ridiculous to gossip over sports stars than it was then to be titillated by scandal involving people who happened to be born titled or royalty. Gossip is how humans communicate, a lot of the time, and no-one is forcing anyone to participate at knife-point.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 2105 posts Report Reply

  • Dinah Dunavan,

    Of course if TW had come out it would have been even better if all his lovers were white and blond.

    I thought it particularly interesting that much was made of TWs affairs being with blonds. Those sneaky black men despoiling our blonds.
    As if every other man in the world hasn't had an affair with blond women.

    Dunedin • Since Jun 2008 • 186 posts Report Reply

  • Sam F,

    It's interesting the heroes that different cultures build up and tear down - and how they're viewed in different ways. Just finished Oliver August's 2007 book Inside the Red Mansion , which tells the story of Lai Changxing. Lai basically started off from nothing and became one of the richest people in China during the 1990s, through various means not all of which were legal or necessarily moral.

    He became a hero to the locals on his home turf of Xiamen - even after the authorities publicly stopped tolerating him and prosecuted him for bribery, corruption and the whole works, whereupon he fled to Canada in 1999 (he's still there).

    In fact, the authorities turned his famous Red Mansion luxury pad/harem into a Communist-style museum of ill-gotten gains, but the luxury on display was still so impressive that tourism to the Mansion grew out of control, complete with other rapt entrepreneurs arriving to take notes on Lai's ultimate high-rolling lifestyle. Thus the museum was hastily rejigged...

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1609 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    Gossip is how humans communicate, a lot of the time

    True, it goes right back to when we were hunters and gatherers, when KDONK [he is hit on the head by an anvil that leaves him unconscious.]

    How many sponsorship deals did Michael Jackson have?

    Quite a number

    Er, okay, fair cop. What I meant is that you hardly need to have constructed a squaky clean image for the purposes of selling stuff for the public to relish ripping you to shreds if your famous life has taken a turn for the weird, or the adulterous, or the self-destructive. Perhaps in this respect Tiger deserves a little less pity than others, but really not that much in my view.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • Geoff Lealand,

    Gossip is how humans communicate, a lot of the time, and no-one is forcing anyone to participate at knife-point.

    As in all professions, when academics get together (usually at conferences) much of the talk is what I would call 'gossip'--who has shifted jobs, who is feuding with whom, in which department, who has fallen off the rails, who is angling for promotion, who has written the most outlandish article recently, etc etc.

    Screen & Media Studies, U… • Since Oct 2007 • 2539 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    I'm assuming you know that the source of Beenie Man's loathsome overcompensation is widely thought to be the career damage he took with his Jamaican audience after he appeared on RuPaul's TV show?

    No I didn't, but that's going straight in the Truth Is Waay Is More Fabulously Freaky Than Fiction file.

    Bet he doesn't do 'Dancehall Queen' live much anymore...

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Er, okay, fair cop. What I meant is that you hardly need to have constructed a squaky clean image for the purposes of selling stuff for the public to relish ripping you to shreds if your famous life has taken a turn for the weird, or the adulterous, or the self-destructive. Perhaps in this respect Tiger deserves a little less pity than others, but really not that much in my view.

    Is he really being "ripped to shreds"? Mostly, no. He's being laughed at. It was a stroke of genius for someone at the New York Post to realise that his identified girlfriends were now numerous enough to fill a calendar, and publish that calendar.

    Some of the women he was with have gone for the main chance and tried to sell stories or photoshoots. Former Playboy model Loredana Jolie intends to write a book about her encounters with him. They're looking to cash in the currency of fame.

    But Woods is still an extremely wealthy man who can go back to playing golf any time he likes. The speculation is that he might lie low for a while as part of a PR strategy -- they'll let all the stories shake out -- and then carefully rebuild.

    Anyone would feel sorry for his wife and family, but I'm not sure you can blame the news media for that.

    I don't feel particularly sorry for Woods, and I'm not morally outraged by him either.

    PS: A quickie analysis claims his top nine sponsors have suffered a $12 billion loss of stock market value as a result of his fall from grace.

    If you had your retirement investment in Proctor & Gamble, Pepsico or Nike, you might be entitled to be pissed off with him.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22759 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    PS: A quickie analysis claims his top nine sponsors have suffered a $12 billion loss of stock market value as a result of his fall from grace.

    If you had your retirement investment in Proctor & Gamble, Pepsico or Nike, you might be entitled to be pissed off with him.

    The WSJ's Carl Bialik has an interesting fisking of some methodological sand-traps in that study (which the authors are quite happy to acknowledge) and isn't over-impressed with how it's been promoted and covered either.

    I might hang fire on blaming Woods for condemning little old ladies to penury until that paper's been published in a peer-reviewed journal and competently reported. :)

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • SteveH,

    So I don't agree that it's simply and purely a celebrity gossip story that all right-thinking people should ignore. There's enough money involved to make it interesting.

    Russell, I agree that there is valid interest, but I find the volume of coverage depressing (though sadly all too common with this sort of story). You said in another post that it was more about laughing at him than tearing him down - so is the joke so good that we need a new story every time a new woman is identified? Or even every time one of them opens her mouth?

    I also have a bit of a problem with the idea that "Tiger Woods has cultivated this wholesome image so he deserves it" (not that you've taken that position as such). Did he actually write that webpage blurb you posted? Obviously someone has cultivated that image but I suspect that it has had a lot more input from the people around him than from the man himself (and not necessary just PR people - I'm sure his father would have been involved, for example). Was he supposed to say "wait on, I'm actually serially unfaithful and maybe addicted to sex, perhaps you should mention that on the website"? I guess I'm struggling to see how exactly he was supposed to stop that image being developed. I suppose he should have got caught in some less extreme immoral circumstances earlier on?

    Anyway I don't like this idea that seems to be coming from some quarters that the real "crime" was that he his public image wasn't a realistic portrayal of the private man, as if the implicit lies to public are somehow worse than the actual lies to his wife. I think that position is worse than simply judging him on his lack of fidelity. Surely at this point in the evolution of our society we're fully aware that public images are just images, and that they may bear little resemblance to reality?

    Since Sep 2009 • 444 posts Report Reply

  • Peter Darlington,

    Where do you think inspiration for fiction comes from, if not 'real life'? *People* are stupid, crass and debased (as well as intelligent, noble and uplifting, at least sometimes).

    True, I just wish I was on the " intelligent, noble and uplifting" side of the ledger for once :)

    Nelson • Since Nov 2006 • 948 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Obviously someone has cultivated that image but I suspect that it has had a lot more input from the people around him than from the man himself (and not necessary just PR people - I'm sure his father would have been involved, for example)

    Oh, come on. He is actually an adult. He's not a passive actor in his own life. As you say, I'm not of the view that "he deserved it", but I can think of many, many people for whom I feel greater sympathy. I'm slightly surprised at the rush to such great sympathy here. He's an extraordinarily wealthy man with excellent PR advice. He'll be fine.

    Was he supposed to say "wait on, I'm actually serially unfaithful and maybe addicted to sex, perhaps you should mention that on the website"?

    The possibility that his behaviour was literally pathological is actually something that gives me pause.

    Anyway I don't like this idea that seems to be coming from some quarters that the real "crime" was that he his public image wasn't a realistic portrayal of the private man, as if the implicit lies to public are somehow worse than the actual lies to his wife.

    I think that about anyone who conducts a sexual affair behind the back of a partner -- people having sex is all good fun, consistently deceiving someone to whom you're supposed to show love and loyalty is creepy and wrong. But any time I say that I get told to drop the sanctimony and mind my own business :-)

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22759 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    PS: A quickie analysis claims his top nine sponsors have suffered a $12 billion loss of stock market value as a result of his fall from grace.

    That's one of the most uplifting pieces of news I've heard this decade. And I started it in 2001, not just a few days ago.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • pollywog,

    consistently deceiving someone to whom you're supposed to show love and loyalty is creepy and wrong

    cross threading here but...do you mean like gareth thomas marrying and fathering kids, all the while decieving wifey and the public at large about his gayness...

    wheres the outcry and christian moralising over that ? instead he's held up as a role model for gays in elite sport..go figure

    i guess he's not famous enough ? and this seems weird...

    'If it had been another woman, I think I would have thrown myself off a cliff, because it would have destroyed every ounce of my selfesteem. But the fact he'd been with men, strangely almost didn't feel like cheating to me.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1237397/When-Gareth-told-gay-man-I-loved-died.html#ixzz0bxpepeMw

    oops no kids just miscarriages...how sad for wifey:(

    somewhere else • Since Dec 2009 • 152 posts Report Reply

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