Posts by robbery
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The plan was to kill the vinyl market overnight and then use the new players as a lever to resell all that pre-CD stuff to the same folks that had already bought it. And it largely worked.
and it would have worked too if it hadn't been for those pesky kids, and timmy the dog of course.
That's all very dramatic and exciting but it's at the very least an overstatement of the importance of this 'plan' in the big scheme of things. surely there's some leaked secret memo to prove the existence of this conspiracy to trick the public into buying that which they already owned?
But really, sure they've got some shitty old elvis recordings they can remaster and sell off at budget prices but that's hardly a business plan for the future or likely to be any labels prime strategy.
remember that the market for the dark side of reissues is largely people who have slowed their buying habits cos they're old and past their impulsive prime.
new buyers, well they don't own old formats anyway so there's no double dipping with them so the "double selling evil crime" of the majors really isn't that clever or spectacular if it ever was a conscious plan instead of some rock critics manipulation of past events to paint a good story. Some official record company documents outlining said plan will of course prove it once and for all.
Is that evil? No more so than Heinz selling Baked Beans.
Thats how I see it, but with one difference, there are probably more people involved in music that love it than there are heinz people tat love beans, and definitely more music motivated indies than beans motivated canned goods enthusiasts.
I'm hungry, might have can of the god stuff -
Most car CD players do the same thing in order to deal with the bumpiness problem.
I wish. My piece of shit cd player which isn't that old or shitty, doesn't appear to have any such clever trickery going on, it jumps on any and all bumps (and unfortunately in chch thats most roads on this gloriously flat city) but only on some bad cdr burns. pressed cds tend to work better. I actually like having that piece of shit player cos it tells me when a new cdr device is crap.
what you're describing is buffering audio and mny players do do this, walkman disc players do from 10 to 30 seconds and if regular play is interrupted for longer than that you get a drop out. its still an average solution to a stupid idea. its still a spinning disc being read by a laser. about as dumb as those oldsound burger turntables that you could allegedly walk down the street with.
as you say though cd copy protection is mostly abandoned, cos it was a reasonably idea implemented appallingly. a PR catastrophy.
They could however have installed something similar to the serial copy management system that used to be on consumer model DAT players. you get one copy and that copy had COPY written into it, and machines won't copy the copy. that would be a clever system to aspire to, but who am I to give the experts ideas.
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Before long, of course, they remembered that they actually needed customers to pay them money ...
or,before long they actually realised that their technical experts had fucked up and that they needed to fix the problem by either getting copy protection that works and doesn't fuck the whole thing up. I'm not reading that as an evil marketing strategy by EMI, its just a fuck up, a mistake. why would anyone reasonably think its cool to sell a product that doesn't play on legitimate devices.
simon has a legitimate reason under the consumer guarantees act to return his purchase for a fully functioning one, or seek a refund. there are perfectly good laws already in effect to back him up on that one. no conspiracy or hatin' necessary.
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All their tunes come with Windows Media DRM, which imposes various rules on their use, requires online authorisation for them to be moved to another device, and most of all doesn't work on a Mac.
thanks for that clarification Russell.
so essentially you are trying to run your 91 octane car on diesel.
your pissed cos your marginal platform (the same one I use) isn't supported by this retailer.
is the material you're wanting to purchase available at other outlets, ie itunes? cos if it is then I can't see its a problem. just buy it there, and let vodafone ignore a section of the market for now.
I can't see that its a drm problem so much as a platform problem. you're hatin' the wrong target. in away mac should step up to the plate with a player that plays windows media drm. its not the drm that's at fault. -
Selling people the things they thought they already owned is a cornerstone of the industry
what do you mean by cornerstone.
are you implying music labels in general get into the business of making and releasing music because they want to sell people a product they already own? you're an ex label owner, was that on your label plan when you started it or at any stage in your career did you think, better develop this theme of ripping off the consumer more so I can make some high quality dosh. not wanting to speak for you but I'm guessing no, not ever and I think its reasonable to assume that's not really a driving force in any music makers philosophy. saying its a cornerstone of the industry is just misleading and scare mongering no matter what some wanna be authority scribe on the industry wries in his book. Its just not what happens out there.disc do get re released on cd, I've even done it myself. I have no objection to original owners copying there legally purchased cassettes onto disc, or the can get a remastered disc with extended artwork and extra tracks off me. no skin off my nose. I'm not ever thinking "yay, got to wads of cash for the same song" and I don't expect anyone else is either. remastered re releases have value, or else we'd do it ourselves.
what does minorly bug me is reissues that come out 3-4 times each time with something interestingly different on it, but again, I don't necessarily think some evil genius was sitting there with all the content and planned 4 releases to make someone buy it multiple times. its more likely technology and time produced different versions, with unknown new material coming to light. Having done a great swag of that stuff recently I can tell you first hand this is exactly how it happens. people bring to the surface material long since lost and forgotten just as I've put the finishing touches on a comprehensive collection. no evil intent or conspiracy involved, and guess what I often send out updated versions free of charge to those who were early purchasers.I feel ripped off again as I'd quite like to play it in the car..legally...but I can't.
i pod, itrip, solved. why would you want to turn a 3 meg file into a 30 meg file on cd, and think of the damage you are doing to the environment by wasting another shiny disc on connecting you computer to your car. the shame.
People hate the music industry but love the music.
That's weird you should voice that opinion from your perspective cos I've always seen you as an example of a decent bloke who most definitely is the industry, you were hanging with all those major label people, reading books and admiring the whole game of it all, yet you're not evil in the slightest, you're an intelligent person with a massive streak of integrity, who is the thing you point the evil finger at (how bizzare, major label connections and friends etc)
I think people hate the industry because of mis information or misguided frustration. maybe the industry is made up of a lot of people just like you, and some complete fuckwit accountant types granted too, I've met a few of them, too. un educated tasteless pricks they might be but they're not devising a system to sell me 2 copies of the same product, they're trying to find other products they think my neighbours 16 year old kid will part dosh for. That's the easy money out there if that's what they're in it for.
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the fucking thing had copyright protection on it and wouldn't play on that or my car.
are you sure its copy protection thats stopping it being playedin your car stereo. as an engineer I deal with these issues for my work. I burn cds on some burners and they won't play in car stereos, others will.
there is no reason through copy protection that a cd should not play in a completely legitimate player if the thing is working correctly.CDs don't play in my car player because a car cd player is a fucking stupid idea. I've got terrible suspension that picks up every bump in the road and there's a spinning silver disc with a lazer pointed at it trying to read minute information off its surface. complete madness.
I can't tell without more exploration why your disc didn't play but I'd hesitate to blame it on copy protection just yet, and if it was copy protection then it was obviously a flawed and failed attempt at it which should never have hit the streets. That doesn't make the concept of trying to stem copy protection inherently evil or bad.
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russell can you give me some more technical info on your vodafone issues as per an earlier question to you. I've no experience of the faults in their system so can't offer technical critique till someone does outline a real world example.
Cheers -
The development of the compact disc was driven by the philosophy of replacement. It's been a cornerstone of the industry for decades.
and there I was as a consumer thinking it gave me a better delivery system than a 12 inch vinyl recording prone to scratching and not very portable at all. guess that's the strange thing about interpreting motives. I thought I was getting convenience which I very much did want, and all along they were just trying to make me buy the same record twice :)
until I see a leaked document that outlines the plan from the major players I think I'll keep believing however naively that a compact disc was just a more convenient to use delivery system. and it was and is, which is why we use it and look for even more convenient systems with fully digital delivery systems. that's just common sense isn't it? -
Apart from all that; totally legit.
allowing for common sense though russell.
if copy right owners were opposing format shifting so they could make some extra dosh off you by making you buy a new format copy then we'd see policing and prosecution for breech of it well before now, but we haven't have we. That's cos they're not opposed to that, they're trying to keep the laws favourable to anti piracy by keeping it as clear cut as they can against it. A new law that says you can make a copy because of this or that just makes the issue more blurred and open to exploitation. As a music producer I have absolutely no objections to people who legitimately buy music from me keeping a valid copy of it going on any format. I'm not looking for extra dosh from future format sales of the item and realistically I don't think the majority if any of the music producers in this world are looking at it from that point of view.They are concerned about eroding control of their material though and any change in law that erodes respect for fair boundaries, making the public think its ok for one friend to by an album and then copy it for all their friends. That's really the issue isn't it? not extra profits from multiple sales of the same item in different formats.
I'm certain we won't ever see anyone prosecuted for dubbing their vinyl to CD, copying their cd to ipod, doing a 45 rpm 10 inch lathe cut of a 78 cylinder. It's just not the issue at hand, and it never has been. I like free as much as the next person but I'm not blind enough to ignore the real motives behind DRM, and copyright law.
sometimes it is as simple as the obvious. music is getting stolen free for all and it is jeopardizing any possible stability in the production and distribution of music. -
that is speculation though simon. When I make a music recording and sell it to someone on cd i'm not doing it cos I think I'm going to sell it to them again when the next audio format comes out, and remember indie labels make up 40% of the market.
I also don't think the majors throughout history have been rubbing their hands in anticipation of the next format change. you could look at it like that but you could just as easily look at it as they made vinyl when vinyl was around and they made cd when cd was around. They didn't design vinyl to be obsolete (and to some its not) or cd, that's just progress, cd is a step in the direction of more convenient audio, as is mp3 to some extent. its not a conspiracy plan to get 2 times the money for the same item, that's just how its worked out, and why we haven't seen any law suits suing people who transferred their vinyl to cd and mp3. has anyone been prosecuted for transfering their cds to mp3 yet? its legal isn't it?