Posts by robbery
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the daily show et al make no claims of telling the absolute truth...they make it quite clear that they are making entertainment albeit with a political message...
oh you so don't get it.
its the most truthful bit of non journalism out there and that's the saddest thing about it. they only get to do that because they mask it all as entertainment, and it is, but take away moore and stewart how and you wouldn't be getting much more than propaganda out of america. -
I'm enjoying your posts Robbery but I think you can't see the wood for the trees.
There's an element of truth in that IO. I'm so up to my neck in prunings I can't actually be bother getting involved in it.
You're complaining about being required/forced to give two copies of your work to the National Library/Archive.
i'm not complaining, I'm wingeing, I thought russell had quite clearly established that any opinion on any topic which is not his own and he does not hold dearly to his heart cos it affects him directly is wingeing. I'm glad i've comprehended that clearly now cos it makes life a lot simpler.
The issue is the insult. not the cost of a disc.its another "fxck you" to a bunch of people I hold in high regard. (they're some of your friends russell but then you always were a "guest list" kinda guy)Have you ever wondered what happened to the stars of your youth mate. Apart from the few who still manage to hold their head up and do their happy monkey routine most of them are bitter about how they were treated. I can tell you where many of them are and what they're doing, and its not doing what they were good at.
When you press 500 CD's how many do you give away as promo copies anyway? Would you charge radio if they wanted one of your CD's?
Who's pressing??? I know many labels and hardly any releases are passing the 100 mark these days. Yeah we've got our fat freddys which everyone likes to name drop but this industry wasn't very healthy to begin with and its certainly not getting better with the modern challenges of technology and the piracy it brings. and no ones found a satisfactory solution to the issue, no matter how technology commentators might like to paint the bright future.
For me right now, the charity has ended. no one gets anything for free. there are only 2 radio stations in this country that rate a mention these days and its wholely humbling that one is programmed by and ex mocker, and the others the national program!!!! my mum listened to that station!!!!!.
heh heh heh
And you forgot to mention that he's got a face for the interweb. When he pops up on TV1's Breakfast the milk in my cornflakes curdles...I don't know bout that. he's kinda cute in a grizzly bear kinda way.
Having watch a bit of breakfast tv lately have you noticed the shocking level of people they're passing off as experts. god help us if anyone was actually watching and believed those people.
Stick to the cooking and gray bartlett covers please.(accompanied by a miming brendan dugan of course) -
i'm with you on the spitfires, well not really, i'm bored shitless and arguing with you is entertaining. but to your post
well documented re-editing in bowling for columbine that took Charlie Hestons rant of "...from my cold dead hands" completely out of context and insinuated that he had made that brain fart immediately following the columbine shootings....
is that the best you can do??
that heston thing was funny, its entertainment, like the daily show, they make their point from this shit cos the average smo just don't get it. its too bad Moore has to dumb his stuff down for the average american retard but that's the bain of living and making films in that country I guess. I wouldn't know, I live in another ill educated stupid country altogether......well then take that the next step and accept that a small price to pay for such public funding is a responsibility to fork over a couple of CD or whatever to the same people that forked out the funding in the first place.....the NZ public!!!
ahhh, you're assuming they fund everything. not the case. I'm happy for carly fxckin binding to fork a copy of her latest piece of dog turd to the library but I'm not talking about that. Tears indeed,!!!
I'm talking about your artsy wank shit, you know, the stuff that they put in hallensteins ads these days cos it reminds of the good old music we used to get puked on to in our youth.
That stort of thing but made by the irresponsible youth of today, who still don't get funding cos they don't fit the mold.as for costs for a cd i was meaning to indicate the cost to a musician/artist etc of handing over a couple of units to the archive..its not a lost sale....its just a CD with a few Os and 1s burnt on it....head down to the local kamakooza industries outlet and buy a spindle of 50......retail less than a dollar per disc!!!
please don't let me work for you :) did I not lay it out for you in enough detail.
ok, here you go,
1 x cd = $0.68 (inkjet printable of course)
1 x label print ink ($1.00, yeah that ink is expensive)
1 x jewel case ($0.80)
1 x cover printed - full colour 2 leaf 4 pg both sides plus inlay card
$1.80
factor in cd burner time etc maybe $1.50 a disc??
= $5.78
you're very cavilare with other peoples money and time but as I said. thats a disc and the costs to make it.They're not asking for a cdr burn they're not even asking, they're demanding 2 full copies of each disc delivered to their door, and that's just a little rude considering we pissed so much money as a nation away of a boat race.
and quite frankly if Shihad are "keen" enough to continue persuing a career that paid only $400 a week at their "peak" then they are hopefully not in it for the money (kudos to them), and if they are in it for the $$$ then they would appear sadly deluded and desperate!!!
and that there attitude is why you don't deserve to have em in your country. they're not doing it cos the think you deserve a free show mate,they're doing it cos they believe what they're doing is good, worthy of the attention they get. rich in any other country, mc donalds wage here.
hey you enjoy your job don't you, why don't you do it for shit wages. hopefully you're not in it for the money are you??? no, but a living and fair reward for your talents is part of it isn't it.
Yes art dosent need industry to exist but if you want to make some $$$ (or a living) from it good luck doing so without it some "industry"
even my ale addled brain can see the glaring holes in your illogic!!!
your logic isn't looking to strong there either my inebriated opponent.
What is it, you expect, a bunch of musicians doing it not for the money, hence no industry, or a bunch of musicians believing their contribution to our culture is worth something and expecting acknowledgment for that.
home again was voted near the top of a recent poll of best nz song, people stating it made them think of this country. be a shame if they'd not been so driven to write and record that baby, wouldn't, let alone be prepared to do it on a mcdonalds wage, but they were so it all worked out ok didn't it (except for those other kiwi classics which slipped through the cracks) -
ahhh no he LIED and in doing so scored a bit of an own goal!!..
examples?
As for your "chip on the shoulder" "world owes me a living" bleating....sheesh get a life! The amount of $$$ that the local entertainment "industry"gets far out weighs the cost of having to hand over a couple of cds.
you're missing the point and you obviously don't participate in the 'industry' you critique. The decision is this. do we value art in our society and want to see it sustainable and grow. if the answer is yes, then we have to accept a certain level of funding because it simply can't sustain the costs of operating to the level we want it to go.
More specifically do we value our own distinct take on art. Apparently the answer to that was yes as we set up a funding body to specifically target 'our voice our culture'
is that funding body targeting our voice our culture? apparently not, its targeting music that will fit into strict guidelines that are laid out by commercial radio programming, specifically, music that fits their formats. These funding decisions are made by those programmers, and while this does infact get increased airplay for "our sounds which sound like their sounds" it does not achieve the goal for which it was set up. Getting more kiwi accents playing kiwi stories on air, how ever unpleasant they may sound or however hard that might be.they cost less than a dollar in terms of real physical unit cost.
really???, where do you get yours made cos mine cost a shitload more than that to make.
some facts and figures, I know you hate em but ....Considering most are doing it cdr at the lower levels its closer to $6 a unit not including costs of recording, (in your cousins' case a computer and a cracked version of logic)
Manufactured you have to do a minimum of 500 all up costing maybe $3-5 depending on packaging, not including recording costs, (in your uncles case $40 grand at a studio cos they wanted to get that radio sound)
Currently the marketplace is in disarray so you're quite right, their little pieces of crap aren't selling so well, (downloading, competition with playstation, piracy in general) so each one of those 500 has to carry the weight of of the copies that aren't sold, lets say they sell 100, that means physical cost of each of the 100 is 5 times the unit cost. ie $15 -$25 not including recording costs (in your case, nothing cos you didn't record anything)and quite frankly im sure there is plenty sitting in the archives that will be lucky to get even that once they are relegated to thier rightfull place in the warehouse bargin bins....they should feel lucky to be even wanted in a national archive!!!
True true, thats what the country as a whole was saying about the music that now adorns hallenstiens ads. I guess the choice you've got to make is, just cos your country isn't savvy enough to recognise the worth of their culture at the time, should you discard it. Archives have got it partially right that it might, just might be worth saving for the next hallenstein's commercial, but dropped the ball on the message they sent out by royally decreeing the first 2 born children shall be theirs. What are we, third world poor?????, cheap assed mothers. I'm embarrassed for the message it sends out.
the term is "Show Business" not "Show Art"
:)scary, show biz refers to musicals, and if you don't recognise the art and culture in your music you don't deserve to have.
music is an artform that has an industry attached to it, they are separate. Art doesn't need industry to exist, but the music industry is incredibly shit with out art in it, but that's the kind of thing you'd expect a left wing liberal to say.
boomshanker! -
My understanding of the 2003 Act was that it reduced the burden on publishers, by cutting the legal deposit requirement to two copies: one for preservation in the Turnbull and the other for access at the National Library.
what reduced burden. I haven't heard hide nor hair of a legal requirement to deposit anything until the fancy booklet arrived in the post, (2 to 3 times if my memory serves me correctly) and prior to that the good old alexander turnball library came to the party every time with full retail purchases of 2 of everything this country made. they offered the cash and didn't ask for freebees. It seems funny and somewhat draconian
Why are you so pro this anyway. do you think there's too much money going to artists as it is? Do you think we as a country can't afford to give people their dues for their wares? Seriously, what would it cost and whats so offensive about my suggestion of paying for it. I know its not affecting your pocket, but think of some of your friends who it does affect, if you know any of the grass roots producers that are stringing it by the bones of their backsides.
If we can affort to piss money into the ocean for a shitty richman's boating race which we lost again!!! we ain't that poor a nation.And legal deposit does not "only apply to the arts sector" -- it covers a huge range of documents, some of which cost rather more to produce than a CD.
and that sucks too, (writing, photography, books and periodicals, print making and the like all qualifying as arts to me).
You need to get the chip off your shoulder and think about what you're writing.</quote>I pay for my chips, thank you very much, you go make your own. this isn't a charity, why treat it like it is.
I stand by my 'opinion' that we have a flawed funding system and amongst its failings are that it returns a proportionally bad result for the amount of money it costs to administer it. ie, I see a lot of employees, but I don't see much of a result as far as its stated aims and objectives.
Its charming that you chose the wonderful american media techniques of sidetrack the point and the intent of a comment with semantics. I don't for a second believe NZ on Air spend more than they administer but I do believe it is too much, which was my point (ignored) and more specifically they return very little for their staff level and their cost. ie must try harder, should do better. give us some of those figures specifically relating to music too. you quoted the ones relating to overall funding.
And while we're spelling it out, I'm making these comments specifically about music funding, I'll leave it to someone else to take issue with the amount of kiwi accents we see on our daily dose of soap opera, which does nothing for me but I have no problem with, but I'm sure others in the industry have issue with (mr stowell??)
As I said you're a surprisingly good journalist in the media and tech field and I give you respect for that, (a respect that you don't give others in their field of experience, as noted by your parting shot),so while we're throwing stones I personally found you were shit at music journalism (RIU letters pages were full of negative responses as I recall). I very rarely see any insight into the art of music in your music writing and thats always annoyed me, so I find it rich again that you see fit to de chip my shoulders.
You have an opinion on music and culture which is cool, but there are plenty of others who are equally or better equipped to make calls in this field than you, no offense meant. how about discussing the issues instead of shouting them down.
(ketchup??)
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i really thought we had all worked out that michael moore was a cringe inducing embarrasment and pretty much all out LIAR quite some time ago!?!?
we had, but there was that pesky matter of what he said proving to be true, and that he backed up everything he said with documents.
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That's rich coming from someone who makes his living from wingeing
I have no idea what calling "theatre" really means but I think that comment deserves a "theatre" call, robbery, don't you? Being paid to voice your opinion and share your expertise is very different to whingeing, wouldn't you agree? And I would also add that this is Mr Brown's forum - his little home on the Net if you will - and my mother always told me that when you are invited into someone's home, you are at all times gracious. Your comment strikes me as less than gracious.
I hear you jackie but the full quote in full context was
"That's rich coming from someone who makes his living from wingeing, but then wingeing is all a matter of perspective innit :)"
ie there is a smilie on the end of it, as in a good natured ribbing given to someone who came on a way to strong to a guest in his home (also an etiquette no no) . but this is the internet, a public forum, and hopefully Russell has the discussion option on his forum on because he wants people to discuss. If he wanted purely pats on the back he'd have the "approve each comment" option switched on.as I said, one persons wingeing is another's informed expertise.
it all depends on how dismissive you want to be, and what your field of expertise is. -
and now for the long reply
not a musician I see :)
legal deposit smosist, typical hands out for freebees kiwi attitude more like it, name on the door, free cd, can I get my mate one too attitude, funny how it only applies to the arts sector as you'd be hard pshed to get your dentist mate to drill a couple of holes for you for free.
its a cheek is what it is, and now its a legally binding cheek. What's wrong with putting up a budget and purchasing the damn things like everyone else. Explain to me why cultural citizenship requires a pay to play mentality. is everyone required to donate part of their services in other sectors?It has been a part of the law for ages but until recently The Alexander Turnball library has done the right thing and purchased 2 copies of everything. Now we're taking a step back into the middle ages and the royal guards are going to come round to your nephews house and demand a copy of his electronic noodlings or they'll confiscate his best goat and torch his barn as punishment.
Its bloody backward and insulting to the cottage industry music scene we have here. but thats ok, so long as 4 politicians 3 lawyers and 2 accountants were kept in the manner to which they've become accustom. Sheesh, yeah, nothing spells civilized progression as much as requiring a minority sector of your community to cough up for the crown (or govt back library as it were)
Wingeing is all a matter of perspective as you know Russell. Your recent comments on autisms are probably seen as wingeing to the people you criticize but to a concerned and involved parent like yourself make perfect sense, and its your right to make such comments, and I wouldn't ever challenge your right to make them, or dismiss them as wingeing, although you seem comfortable to do so to someone else with views different to your own.
I noticed a similar attitude in your mention of the esteemed film maker Michael Moore recently. What is it with dissing this guy. It seems incredibly fashionable to do so but people avoid addressing the actual points he's making in his movies, instead they focus on tenuous detail. you watched the you tube interviews with woolf etc. is it too much to expect journalists to do the job any more?
My points are valid. this is a bloody small country and the music community its tight knit.
While I respect your comments as a media commentator your experience in musical fields are obviously limited to an observer, no matter how many musicians you may know, have you really understood the climate they work in, or simply attended their gigs and behold the glory of their efforts. You only have to read Simon Grigg's Pagan records release list to get an eye opening perspective on Trevor's feelings on doing his thing in the nz climate. its not all happy smiles and satisfied customers. The man is pissed off with Radio, and was right up till he'd had enough.
You had a go at Niel Finn for speaking his mind recently too. These are people who are actually at the coal face of it. I think their opinions are worth considering, and should be taken seriously.re nz on air - 95 mill is the total budget of nz on air for tv and film, not just music.
There's a big chunk of salary money that goes into the music sector and my point was, its a small country, and for the size of the country these people do not communicate with their client base.I wasn't talking about the MIC as such but now that you mention it, weren't they set up to establish a music industry where thousands of musicians would be gainfully employed in a happy triving musical new zealand?
But if anyone had bothered to talk to actual musicians that had been trying for years to earn a crust, (and you know some of those people yourself), they'd have figured out it was bloody impossible. This myth of the rich rockstar simply does not apply to NZ. Most of the top musicians earn if their lucky the equivalently of a mcdonalds wage, and definitely far less than the bureaucrats that administer the funding to sustain a valuable artform and social voice that simply CANNOT BE SUSTAINED in a country of this size.So actual figures for you. Shihad at their peak paid themselves $400 a week, at their peak,!!!! including all the income from gigging!!! The Feelers, were drawing just a little more than the dole at the top of that first mega selling album,
People like Jordan Luck have a modest living, subsidized by judging talent quests and the like, certainly far less than their contemporaries who chose to go into bigger professions like accounting, or funding administration.its impossible, it's never happened and its not going to happen. You can count the people etching a living from it on your hands and toes.
We need funding if we are to have the thriving creative artistic country we say we want, and we need what little funding we can afford to go to the right wheels, the kiwi wheels that make us proud. Trying to establish a self-sustaining commercial radio world of music producing local versions of overseas hits is a waste of time and money and damaging to our culture, it was a stupid idea then and it certainly is more so now as we see the globalisation of our self-image take hold.The whole arts issue in NZ is a lot more complex than you want to paint it and its cute that you chose to dismiss it as wingeing, but then its obviously not a central factor for you in your daily life, however to some people it is.
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That's rich coming from someone who makes his living from wingeing, but then wingeing is all a matter of perspective innit :)
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Re supergroups, its not a big country.
its totally possible to know just about everyone making music in this country. interestingly the national library saw fit to seek and pass a law requiring every artist and label to give 2 copies of every release to their archives. the penalty for non compliance with what is essentially an artists tax being a $5000 fine.
for the amount of money it cost to draft that law produce and mail out their expensive booklet promote and police it they could easily have bought at full retail every copy of everything made in this country.so too with funding bodies. They could easily with the staff on hand and allocated funding be in regular contact with all players in the field and actively bring our music more easily to our ears, but then it wouldn't be a government funding body if it didn't spend more on administering its funding than it dished out in support. We are a small country, but we don't have to be stupid at the same time.