Posts by Sacha

Last ←Newer Page 1 2 3 4 5 Older→ First

  • Hard News: So far from trivial,

    Headline - "Sense of hostility looms over return test":
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/4/story.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10521111&pnum=0

    Includes:

    There is a sense of brutality and certainly hostility about this return test...

    ...many of the 29,000 at Carisbrook and many others who tune in to broadcasts will do so in anticipation of some violence.
    Call it what you like, legalised mayhem or strongarm tactics, but part of the fascination is to see how close to the edge teams take it and how the officials will deal with it.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report Reply

  • Hard News: So far from trivial,

    I don't think it's endemic or inseparable from the culture

    It's more true of elite level like the ABs where the team loyalty exaggerates some of the worse features, but it's hardly irrelevant here.

    I agree with Yamis' point that team sport is an important part of the upbringing of most Kiwi kids. I do question whether the moral code that used to be integral to sport has eroded in favour of winning at all costs - again, more at the elite level where it is more culturally prominent.

    I need to emphasise I'm talking about the thuggish end of sports culture here - hence saying "thugby" (not because I'm writing for a tabloid). I'm talking about the big meta-stories and themes that build around rugby over time and through media, not the day to day operation of the sport or the individuals who are in it.

    I'm not interested in quoting studies linking sports, media and violence. They're useful alongside other more personal forms of evidence, and they can help minimise the effects of cultural dissonance someone mentioned above.

    Any of this stuff involves generalisations based on our experiences, reading and conversations. The real challenge is teasing out how we relate to those, and what it means for individuals and groups we care about. What we each believe is important in life is central to that, and I think we're seeing that reflected here.

    The larger conversation now in New Zealand about violence seems to be part of us maturing as a nation. It is a privilege for me to be here as thoughts are shared. Thank you all for creating the space for the conversation.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report Reply

  • Hard News: So far from trivial,

    Yamis, I don't have time to go into detail about the links between rugby and its surrounding culture in this country which includes a lot about how men relate to women (note comments about girlfriends at end of that brief clip).
    That's all well established academic knowledge by now, but it's more subtle than saying a game makes a person act a certain way. It's not actually about the game anyway but the "blokey" norms around it. I get a sense you might first need more background understanding about how people, cultures and behaviours relate. Anyway, perhaps others can chip in.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report Reply

  • Hard News: So far from trivial,

    Yamis, here's one for you, mate:

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report Reply

  • Hard News: So far from trivial,

    That was the McShane comment I was referring to.

    I accept that there is some conversational value in being a devils advocate, and there's been interest in the legal niceties - but surely as Danielle and others have had to keep reminding us the "real issues" in this sad situation are more to do with male violence against women, how our charming meathead thugby culture relates to that, the influence of money on justice, and public vs private spheres colliding in the glare of media. If it wasn't about Veitch all those factors wouldn't have come together.

    The conversation has been instructional in that sense, but not if we keep rushing to defend the indefensible out of some warped sense of fairness. It's not ok. There's no way to make it ok. Stop trying.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report Reply

  • Hard News: So far from trivial,

    Otherwise the court sentence for any violent crime would be exactly the same.

    Exactly, as would the size of the payment for silence. The scale of both bruising and bribe seem to have attracted our attention.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report Reply

  • Hard News: So far from trivial,

    Who knows exactly what happened aside from those who were there...

    And that's where the context comes in, including the cultural factors about sports, gender and violence.

    Let's not be naive and carry on as if there is a level playing field. There isn't - hence some of the comments about justice for the rich, and the understandable desire not to go through an invasive court process for little personal gain.

    Are these professional rugby players with instant access to their management and lawyers likely to say anything if they are advised that silence benefits them? Is the only non-team person in the situation likely to be unaware of the discrepancy in her resources, or the consequences of pursuing a complaint, including having her reputation savaged in our courts while the players are shieded (Louise Nicholas, anyone)? Is a judge hired by the English rugby union the sole purveyor of truth?

    In Veitch's case, please pay similar attention to the context (lawyers, defamation, staged apology) and perhaps go back and read Russell's post. Just read the first sentence at the top of the screen.

    I'm not holding my breath waiting for legal-grade evidence to be supplied. That doesn't stop me and others having a reasonable and historically informed understanding about what is going on and what it means.

    Which again causes me to be curious about your motivation for downplaying or denying what most of us seem to understand has gone on here, despite the unknowns and complexities. Do tell.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report Reply

  • Hard News: So far from trivial,

    Robbery, "the victim" includes society as well. Hence police investigating in the absence of complaint. Discussed earlier in thread, including historical references.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report Reply

  • Hard News: So far from trivial,

    Ian, for me it goes back to what Craig said earlier today. We understand one another better if where we are coming from becomes visible through the various positions we discuss. Respectful forums like this are taonga.

    I'm not really sure why but I seem to have a less clear picture of the underlying motivation of contributors who are saying there needs to be more evidence. Your comment "the need to be fair as a society" is exactly the kind of thing I was seeking.

    Of course it may lead to a dicussion about what is fair...

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report Reply

  • Hard News: So far from trivial,

    Fletcher, yes I did wonder whether the payoff being bigger was one of the details that Veitch was alluding to when he said some o the facts was wrong...

    There has been a good deal of effort put into imagining more benign explanations for these serious injuries.

    And I'd like to hear more about what is driving that effort, from those who have made it.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report Reply

Last ←Newer Page 1 1963 1964 1965 1966 1967 1971 Older→ First