Posts by Simon Grigg
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Do you really want to throw out, as evidence, the bodies of knowledge developed by theists, in celebration of their faith, which looked for the patterns behind nature?
I think you are confusing very separate things. That the search for knowledge began in a celebration of faith doesn't, by logic, take us to a finish point.
Before Darwin, the theist, began his work on evolution it was not regarded as a scientific reality, or, as it's developed since, about as close to a fact as science can get. Intelligent, rational people, in the absence of this knowledge believed all sorts of things. In the fact of the evidence we now have, it is irrational to claim creation as a possible solution to how we all found ourselves on this rock. Newton was a brilliant man but he also believed in alchemy. His work took us to the moon eventually, or at least played its part. Rational people once understood that if you got in a boat and headed west from Spain, you would find China. We now know that is nonsense. No rational person believes it, although they did once, as a matter of faith.
but religious belief is not prima facie irrational
Yes it is. I'm not belittling people's right to believe what they want, but there is not any rational basis, especially in the early 21st Century, for someone to rationally and logically argue that we were created and are guided by a supernatural being. Such belief can only come from faith, which exists in a space in which logic cannot intrude otherwise that faith falls over. That, of course, doesn't mean that people of faith are incapable of rational thought. History overwhelmingly tells us otherwise. But Darwin's turn from faith as his theories developed may show how difficult the two are to reconcile for many.
Based on what they knew then, the English Parliament and Charles argued to a place where he lost his head and thousands died in the cause. And it was essentially an argument, at least at the beginning, about a common prayer book. The fierce and violent arguments they had were, to them, about ethics and faith, perfectly rational. To us, 400 years on, they are absolutely irrational. To believe in God and search for knowledge as a part of that faith, also seemed perfectly rational to scientists (and the so called Christian ethicists, although I live in part of the world where similar ethical values developed in the absence of Christianity) in centuries past. Scientists now, overwhelmingly, do not subscribe to theist faiths, because they find such beliefs irrational.
So do I.
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Dawkins has been pressed on this issue and simply defines away the moderate Christians as being not properly Christian
Really? I've listened to Dawkins speak many, many times, read several of his books and seen his TV series and I've not taken that from any of his words. Hitchens on the other hand is quite open in his blanket belief that religion, as a form of human constraint, is evil.
I once used the term moderate in front of a believer, and was corrected: how can I moderately believe in god, I was asked. I either do or I don't, and if I do, it's not moderate.
There's a reason why, on matters of atheism, that he's more popular in the States than he is in the UK
The Guardian / ICM survey from 2006, which seems to be the most recent on the matter, put the number of firm non-believers at around 63% in the UK (the balance either don't know or for various reasons claim a belief). Dawkins pulls large crowds in the UK but is largely preaching to the (un)converted there. The US is another story as we know, a place where 2/3 of the nation stil think that the world was created in a mighty sweep of some deity's hand a few thousand years ago.
Which is the core of Dawkins' message: Ignorance versus knowledge. He, naturally, as a scientist, has less issue with those who believe who are willing to accept that the animal kingdom evolved, as voluminous evidence seems to show, than those who argue, in the face of that evidence that we were placed in this earth just before the pyramids and so forth.
And yes we all know Pope Pius got round to opposing Nazism eventually. So that makes it OK?
Individual catholics (and many individual Germans) did all sorts of things in Germany and suffered for it, but the church as a whole, both Catholic and non-Catholic cannot hold their heads up. The response to many things, the murders of the sick and mentally and physically disabled amongst them, was not something to be proud of. Nor was the Vatican's order to the church in Germany in 1943 not to take a stand on the removal of the Jews because the well being of the church took precedence.
And damned (!) if I can find where in that speech Dawkins blamed Hitler on the Catholics. I'd argue he was saying exactly the opposite.
To paraphrase John Mortimer, I long for the time when atheists actually engaged theistic belief in debate rather than played to their own choir.
YouTube has countless debates of the type you require, often involving Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris, Dennett and others. Mostly the aforementioned seem to have an edge, simply because debate requires the application of rationale, whereas religion requires that you suspend rational thought processes.
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Well its not decided by a panel. The shortlist of 20 is, but beyond that its voted for by every APRA member who bothers to do so.
I understand it wasn't always quite as transparent. A few years back, before the current APRA mgmt, the results sometimes underwent a bit of a massage to make sure an acceptable writer got the nod. Or so the stories went....
There were some odd ones down the years. Kapisi was one. I've always loved a bit of Bran Muffin but I really have trouble working out if the massed membership of APRA, who are overwhelmingly older working musicians, really voted for Reverse Resistance, a wonderful but minor hit that got little airplay, which few seemed to know. Certainly there was a pretty strong feeling of disquiet amongst the membership the night it was announced.
I think it's fab that a pop act got the nod this year. I kinda like the band and the art of writing a perfect pop song - the craft - which it very much is, is too often dismissed by the self anointed elite in NZ.
Looking through the list I just realised that Jordan Luck, who may be the most popular songwriter (with middle NZ) NZ has ever produced, and quite handly at writing a tune, is not on the list.....
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Stuart Page reckoned it was Warholesque.
Stu was in excellent reckoning form around 12.30am. We had a great conversation...I think
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We have many friends in common, from back-in-the-day, so it's fun just chatting to them.
Although I do feel the need to sneak past at times (and feel well guilty about it at the same time). The time can melt away when I get caught in there talking about that back in the day.
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the sound of a car horn is taken as a threat or insult and the use of brakes for anything other than stopping at your destination is regarded as "some c%*t pulling out in front of me so I must kill him/her"
There is that: road rage seems to be a very Western thing. I've almost never encountered it in Asia, although the woman in her car at the markets yesterday honking her horn, angrily demanding that the sushi she wanted be bought to her car, came close, talking of which.:
To be fair at times I do actually enjoy it, the abundance of Sushi Tei outlets is a big plus.
Completely off topic, but try these guys next time. Incredible Japanese - the Setiabudi location is in a mall that consists of pretty much only Japanese restaurants.
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I hate that city with a passion that border's on insanity.
Bizarrely, I quite like JKT, but only for brief periods (3-5 days maximum). I've spent a lot of time there, and love the food and mix of sub-cultures. Bahasa as spoken on the streets is fascinating and confusing.
But, yes, it's a filthy broken dump as well.
although so was a monorail in the early 00's and since abandoned
you can still see the unfinished pillars on Jalan Asia-Afrika in Senayan - rusting between the mega malls and the Gucci.
It effectively stopped because the funding was pilfered, and more was needed to pay off endless property owners who put their hands out. But that's Indonesia.
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I suspect anything would look good in comparison to Bangkok. Which, not incidentally, has finally got round to starting on a decent rail system, if I understand correctly.
Superb, skytrain and underground systems, but not new: they've just celebrated their 10th anniversary. Efficient, fast and cheap. I find getting around this city fairly easy. The canal boat will get you from east to west and vice versa in 10 mins.
The worst traffic though by far is Jakarta which is at a standstill 24/7. 20m+ and no public transport. Nightmare.
But I wasn't just comparing Auckland to BKK: any reasonable Asian city (and many European cities), even Bali, which is just gridlock now, have traffic that makes Auckland's look fairly tame.
None of which excuses the fact that something needs to be done about it before it turns into that.
I love driving in Auckland, it's so fast and easy. But Aucklanders tend to get really pissed off when I tell them that.
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I think Angus has made the arguement My Roughan would have liked to make.
Except that the conclusions drawn from that report are flawed. As someone who has spent a lot of time in Singapore over the past decade or so (some 30 visits since 2005, several extended), the stations in the CBD and destination points tend to be a lot closer together than 2000m. Orchard Road, which is only 2km long, has 3 stations, including the new, massive, central line station. All of these have underground tentacles, food and shopping regions, which stretch and feed into the stations for huge distances. The same is true of the City Hall and Chinatown zones. Unlike Auckland they don't sit in isolation.
In the 'burbs, they can be much further apart.
Then again, my experience of Auckland is always a little different. I always enjoy how little traffic there is in the city when back.
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The practice was recently outlawed there, IIRC.
It was outlawed years ago, but as with all things legal in Indonesia the law is very pliable. The riders just have to pay the cops every now and then and they are still there in the same numbers