OnPoint by Keith Ng

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OnPoint: On Freedom of Speech

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  • Lucy Stewart,

    If you're not afraid of war ghosts entering your vagina, you can just decide to go ahead and go, right?

    That seems to be the case, but it certainly wasn't obvious from the way Te Papa originally phrased it. Nor from some of the defense of that original phrasing.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 2105 posts Report

  • Danielle,

    War Ghosts in the Vagina would be an excellent album name. Perhaps too unwieldy for a band name, though.

    I want something explained, though: the original phrasing was more of the 'ladybits = cooties' variety, yes? Why?

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report

  • Emma Hart,

    If I had a vagina I would be disappointed someone is trying to scare me with it.

    I now have a mental picture of someone hiding behind a door sniggering with a six foot tall vagina, waiting to jump out at Jeremy.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4651 posts Report

  • Jeremy Eade,

    I now have a mental picture of someone hiding behind a door sniggering with a six foot tall vagina, waiting to jump out at Jeremy.

    That kind of sums up the old testament view on ladies.

    auckland • Since Mar 2008 • 1112 posts Report

  • simon g,

    On the Herald "race row" story:

    What's notable is not the similarity with Paul Henry, but the differences. There's no statement from the organisers saying "If any of you chose to be offended, whatever." There is no statement from the PR spoke saying "Indians think like that, but not out loud."

    In fact, everybody involved that the Herald rushed to for a juicy quote, let the reporter down. TVNZ could do worse than hire them. I suppose "sensible comments don't inflame race row" would be a bit long for a headline.

    Oh, and this gets the Henry medal for "I'm not racist, I just don't get it" ...

    Ms Lal, whose father is a Fiji Indian and mother a New Zealander

    Because we all know what they look like?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1333 posts Report

  • Kyle Matthews,

    Ms Lal, whose father is a Fiji Indian and mother a New Zealander

    Ooh that is interesting. I wonder if her father is a New Zealander of Fijian Indian ethnicity? Or if he's actually a Fijian.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6243 posts Report

  • Steve Parks,

    The timeline is fuzzy to me at this point, but Ben was the absolute first to step up and say "It's not OK", without test-polling or fear of consequences, right?

    Very same day. I'm pretty sure the stuff news article on Ben's decision was the next main turn reported on, after the initial story.

    Wellington • Since May 2007 • 1165 posts Report

  • simon g,

    Now Campbell Live is parroting the Herald, almost word for word. I despair (actually no, I complain, and already have to TV3).

    If Ms Lal had been excluded from the contest, for not "looking Indian", then that would be a legitimate story. But she wasn't.

    If she had been discriminated against by the judges, then that would be a story. But she wasn't. She won.

    It's a story to celebrate, to demonstrate the fucking ABSENCE of fucking racism (yeah, I'm going a bit Keith in my rage).

    But the story that so excites the Herald and Campbell Live is, in its entirety, that at a function, a few people booed. Yes, a few is always too many. As are the few but too many who make racist comments any weekend at sports events, or who get pissed and obnoxious on a Saturday night, or any other example of boorish behaviour.

    But otherwise, sure, it's just like Paul Henry. Fuck off.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1333 posts Report

  • Jeremy Andrew,

    I now have a mental picture of someone hiding behind a door sniggering with a six foot tall vagina, waiting to jump out at Jeremy.

    Wait, what?

    Oh, the other one...

    Hamiltron - City of the F… • Since Nov 2006 • 900 posts Report

  • Joe Wylie,

    If Paul Henry abusing someone can be held up as a point, then abusing Paul Henry can be too. It was a reductio ad absurdum on the "free speech has been damaged" line. Graeme was just trying to straighten the point out - because the reductio is a valid criticism, that means the negation of the point holds - Paul Henry abusing someone is not a point, and nor is abusing Paul Henry. It's an ad hominem attack, an invalid line of argument.

    Thanks for that Ben, great post.

    If Graeme's comments here lack their usual clarity and require interpretation, might that be because the definition of free speech is a moral rather than a legal issue? Henry's style has never been to present 'suggestions' based on sincerely held convictions. He's built a career pandering to a substantial fanbase by playing the cynical shit-stirrer, signalling his true intentions with nudges and winks. Such an approach is calculated to preclude any valid 'line of argument', even at some hypothetical $2 Shop of Ideas level.

    Cunt or not, Henry's the equivalent of the vexatious litigant - an individual who is not acting in good faith for the purpose of annoying or embarrassing an opponent.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4593 posts Report

  • Rich Lock,

    You think? Check out today's 'race row' story about the fair-haired, fair-skinned Miss IndiaNZ winner. Her father is Fijian-Indian, her mother is reported to be... a New Zealander.

    If I were a betting man, I'd put money on the Herald being fed a patsy story by blondie's PR reps, who saw a golden (sorry) opportunity to get their client a nice big wedge of free exposure off the back of the Henry saga.

    The Herald, having abdicated any sort of moral responsibility since ages ago, and also not actually wanting to do anything that might involve work, effort or thinking, was more than happy to swallow what was handed to them on a plate, and give the scandal of the week a new spin on the front page.

    Who had heard of blondie before this? No-one.

    And who knows about her now?

    back in the mother countr… • Since Feb 2007 • 2728 posts Report

  • bruce rogan,

    Being an ageing heterosexual male who is still able to recall them, I have nothing but favourable recollections of cunts, so while I find myself paddling happily alongside this analysis of Paul Henry's conduct, I would have been happier still if he had been described in more pejorative terms.

    northland • Since Oct 2010 • 1 posts Report

  • Andre Alessi,

    I would have been happier still if he had been described in more pejorative terms.

    How about "a mental midget with the IQ of a fencepost"?

    Devonport, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 864 posts Report

  • Andre Alessi,

    If I were a betting man, I'd put money on the Herald being fed a patsy story by blondie's PR reps, who saw a golden (sorry) opportunity to get their client a nice big wedge of free exposure off the back of the Henry saga.

    Probably nothing so organised as that, but I did think that the mention that "this story has only come to light in the wake of the Paul Henry scandal" was telling. Maybe it was one of those stories that the reporters had been aware of earlier, but never bothered to run because the outrage levels weren't high enough.

    Although I must admit, my first reaction on seeing the picture of the winner on the front page before I ever read the headline was "Oh, another missing white girl?" (Tongue firmly in cheek while swinging from the gallows, you understand.)

    Devonport, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 864 posts Report

  • Jeremy Eade,

    Look a white,blue eyed Miss India winner in a beauty pageant is a story anywhere in the world. Celebrating Indian babes usually has a lot to do with their beautiful dark skin tones.

    It's still a strange way to celebrate thousands of years of Indian culture by ligning up the skinny pretty ladies for rating.

    auckland • Since Mar 2008 • 1112 posts Report

  • Russell Brown,

    If I were a betting man, I'd put money on the Herald being fed a patsy story by blondie's PR reps, who saw a golden (sorry) opportunity to get their client a nice big wedge of free exposure off the back of the Henry saga.

    In which case, it's worked. OTOH, her appearance was the angle for a Capital Times story back in April, when she entered the contest. Contrary to reports, she eventually didn't even place in the top 3.

    Now you have the Daily Telegraph in Britain declaring New Zealand at centre of another race row as beauty contestant booed.

    Um, yeah. It's "another race row" that happened ages ago and has precisely nothing to do with the Paul Henry fiasco. Look at this sort of conscious falsification and ponder why people hate the news media.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22850 posts Report

  • uroskin,

    But I did feel a wee bit squeamish at Margaret Mutu seeming to state belief as empirical fact.

    I trust Prof Mutu knows empirically that 80% of a whale's sperm doesn't get into his girlfriend and that's why the sea tastes salty. (Thank you, Jack Dee)

    Waiheke Island • Since Feb 2007 • 178 posts Report

  • Jeremy Eade,

    Miss Beautiful Eyes
    Miss Friendship
    Miss Beautiful Hair
    Miss Personality
    Miss Photogenic
    Miss Photographic
    Miss Potential Model
    Miss Beautiful Skin
    Miss Beautiful Smile
    Miss Talent

    That's the categories. What a Monster.

    auckland • Since Mar 2008 • 1112 posts Report

  • Jeremy Eade,

    I trust Prof Mutu knows empirically that 80% of a whale's sperm doesn't get into his girlfriend and that's why the sea tastes salty. (Thank you, Jack Dee)

    Now all i'm thinking of is large pools of whale glue floating around the oceans, I'm not swimming this summer.

    auckland • Since Mar 2008 • 1112 posts Report

  • st ephen,

    has precisely nothing to do with the Paul Henry fiasco

    I thought the link to Paul Henry isn't the story itself but rather the way it was reported. ie. she doesn't look "Indian" because her mother is actually a "New Zealander". Or a "Kiwi" as the Capital Times had it. So apparently Capital Times reporters (back then) and Herald reporters (still) are indeed thinking what Paul Henry is thinking.

    But that second link now has me wondering about Miss Beautiful Smile Lucy Russell...

    dunedin • Since Jul 2008 • 254 posts Report

  • Sacha,

    conscious falsification

    With real harm to NZ's reputation. That's likely to affect whether people want to move here, study here (remember previous waves of reporting about anti-Asian racism) or visit us with their tourist dollars. And who pays for that?

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report

  • Jeremy Eade,

    Great point Sacha. We must be starting to look kind of shit overseas which is a real problem because we need positive interest.

    We are islands in the south pacific who boldly tell the world how fresh and new we are in order to compete in their dollar games yet our painful domestic spats over "What a New Zealander looks like?" are getting far too much attention.

    auckland • Since Mar 2008 • 1112 posts Report

  • Sacha,

    Media might think twice about cheap populism if they actually had to pay for its impact.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report

  • 3410,

    But that second link now has me wondering about Miss Beautiful Smile Lucy Russell...

    Please note that Miss Lucy Russell is Miss Beautiful Skin. Miss Beautiful Smile was won by Miss Isha Shevde.

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 2618 posts Report

  • Jeremy Eade,

    What about Miss Beautiful Earlobes or Miss Perfect Elbow?

    auckland • Since Mar 2008 • 1112 posts Report

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