Field Theory by Hadyn Green

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Field Theory: A post about art (sort of)

503 Responses

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  • Paul Litterick,

    Sacha, you have nothing of interest to say about this subject. All you can do is splutter abuse. Try reading a book or two - it might do you some good.

    Giovanni, you have flounced from this thread twice. I hope you have come back with some evidence this time.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1000 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    No. I am just quietly confident that your department doesn't actually hold the views that you've expressed here.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7404 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Litterick,

    My department is not a monolith. It is comprised of individuals with their own views.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1000 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    I'd be shocked if one of them held those views.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7404 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    Oh, this just came to hand: How do you like your five metre-tall rugby lineout of the undead now?

    (For non-speakers of Italian: this statue by Damien Hirst will grace the waterfront of the principality of Monaco.)

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7404 posts Report Reply

  • chris,

    Paul, might be discipline-related. Your arguments in favour of epistemic rupture in the Enlightenment leading to revolutionary change were very common in, say, English literary history about 15-20 years ago.

    A beautifully written post Caleb, as relevant to 'The Enlightenment' as 'The Renaissance' or any of the other renaissances. Although it would make a nice companion piece, I wouldn't think to trouble you to re-post with the substitution.

    I think he underestimates the developments of the Renaissance

    History by Dots

    The Man sits for 12 hours on a beach watching the surf roll in, when asked at the end of the session what he had seen over the course of the day, he describes the biggest wave at the high tide mark in painstaking detail, the rest but a blur.

    He sits a further 12 hours, again asked, again giving a similar answer, elaborating, proffering connections between the biggest wave of the second high tide mark and its predecessor 12 hours earlier. The countless intervening waves are but an inconvenience to a theory.

    Paul, the Polo family (representing the builders of the silk road) called, they want you to return their rightful place in history.

    In later life, Leonardo only recorded two childhood incidents. One, which he regarded as an omen, was when a kite dropped from the sky and hovered over his cradle, its tail feathers brushing his face

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonardo_da_Vinci#cite_ref-17

    中国 • Since Jan 2010 • 900 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Litterick,

    Giovanni, I am perturbed that, rather than argue against my views, you seek to portray me as an outsider, although I have presented respectable academic opinions that support my argument. It is a rather nasty way to conduct a discussion.

    Nastier still, though, is Sacha's attempt to portray me as a colonialist, imperialist running dog, and to imply that I am a racist. Being told that I have failed "to fit other people's understanding inside your own model" is galling, since all along I have argued that the institution of art is not a model which can be applied historically to other cultures. I am quite surprised that is so scandalous to suggest that art is a construct, when talking to people who would argue that most institutions are constructs.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1000 posts Report Reply

  • Islander,

    Paul Litterick -welcome to the divide between working artists and (some) wanker academics.

    You will note, in the ancient history ( c. 2000BPE)written in the world so far- Chinese, Egyptian, Etruscan, Greek & Roman artists do get mentioned. Art critcs/historians dont.

    Sacha has written exactly what a lot of us humble natives actually think: you, an incomer, are trying to tell us takata whenua what is "Art" and what is craft - and, please, dont try and tell me those arnt loaded terms. In European terms, "art" trumps " craft." There is no fuckin' way I will buy into your exceedingly convoluted and dated scenario, gate-kept by such as your self.

    chris has given a lovely example of what you are trying to thrust through as an orthodoxy: do not be surprised if a lot of working artists (and there are quite a few of us on this site) agree with him and emphatically disagree with you-

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Litterick,

    I would only be surprised if any of the vicious insinuations made against me were to be supported by a single fact.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1000 posts Report Reply

  • Islander,

    "vicious insinuations"?
    O, do please be explicit-

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Litterick,

    Just the facts, ma'am.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1000 posts Report Reply

  • Islander,

    Paul Litterick:
    I know quite a bit about what is art in this land (and, throughout Polynesia where relevant.)
    You are trying to impose a template of what you consider art, through your European training in art & art history- yes? On *our* art, considered through *your lenses* - right?
    Have you ever gone into Te Takiroa? Seen the art, called into the walls, heard them call back?

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    "everything is the fault of the Enlightenment"

    It is interesting to note that "other" cultures were not part of that "Enlightenment". I guess that, as they hadn't been stifled by the religious aristocracy that ground on for hundreds of years after the Romans pissed off, they didn't need one.

    The wireless north ;-) • Since Dec 2006 • 4947 posts Report Reply

  • merc,

    ...and for the Heart,

    The multiple troubles of man,
    my brother, like slander and pain,
    amaze you? Consider the heart
    which holds them all
    in strangeness, and doesn’t break.

    Shmuel HaNagid

    Since Dec 2006 • 2471 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Litterick,

    Have you ever gone into Te Takiroa? Seen the art, called into the walls, heard them call back?

    No. How would that make a difference. Being a wanker academic, and an outsider to boot, you would hardly expect me to be able to respond to such a call, would you?

    Suggested reading:

    The Making of the Maori: Culture Invention and Its Logic
    Allan Hanson
    American Anthropologist, New Series, Vol. 91, No. 4 (Dec., 1989), pp. 890-9

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1000 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Being told that I have failed "to fit other people's understanding inside your own model" is galling

    You will insist on reading the opposite of what I write, Paul - in this instance, not that you have 'failed' but that you have succeeded all too well. Worse, that you even think you are somehow entitled to impose your particular cultural construct without even understanding others properly.

    There are words for that. Some are 'arrogant' and 'ignorant' and as mentioned given this place's history, 'colonial'. Bit sad if you're not getting such feedback from your colleagues.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16838 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Litterick,

    Perhaps you should try writing more direct sentences. Yet still, you are writing nothing more than blah. You have nothing to contribute, Sacha. You don't understand what I am saying. You are a wiseacre and a bully.

    It is not me who is making the construct - I am saying that the Western construct of art does not apply to other cultures. It is you (and Islander and Giovanni) who invest so much importance in art that you demand everyone else accept that other cultures must have it, for the sake of your cultural safety. It matters nothing to you that academics do not support your view, because it is not about facts and thoughts but about feelings. Truthiness, that's what it is.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1000 posts Report Reply

  • Islander,

    Thank you for the reference Paul Litterick: as I do not have access to any university library, it is extremely unlikely I will ever read the pages indicated.

    "It matters nothing to you that academics do not support your view," - you're not wrong there.

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Litterick,

    Further reading for folks who hold with book learning:

    Sissons, Jeffrey. "The systematisation of tradition: Maori culture as a strategic resource." Oceania 64.2 (1993)

    Sissons, Jeffrey. "The traditionalisation of the Maori meeting house." Oceania 69.1 (1998)

    Yet another pesky academic blowing away the mists of tradition and, like, speaking truth to power.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1000 posts Report Reply

  • Islander,

    As someone who esteems books and book learning, and has one of Sissions' books, I'm sure those articles could be of interest. But, as I noted I do not have access to university libraries, thus am unlikely to read them. I shall not be grieving too deeply over this.

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    I note that only one of Messrs Litterick and Tiso already has a PhD related to this broad subject area.

    Me, I've said all I need to and readers can decide if it was relevant or otherwise. Wasn't this thread meant to be about a certain proposed public sculpture?

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16838 posts Report Reply

  • Keir Leslie,

    Er, Islander, if you do want read those articles, feel free to drop me a line at my first dot lastname at gmail.com, and I can probably help.

    And Sacha, if you are going to be as petty as to note who has a doctorate, the convention is to say something understated like `I note that Dr Tiso and Mr Litterick disagree'; anything else is gauche.

    Since Jul 2008 • 1389 posts Report Reply

  • Islander,

    Keir Leslie - that is a wonderful offer because, I wasnt being snide: I really would appreciate reading them. Email coming-

    Big O, Mahitahi, Te Wahi … • Since Feb 2007 • 5643 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Keir, when someone is acting dismissively, making accusations of anti-intellectualism and insisting on an academically-referenced argument, I think noting relevant qualifications is quite warranted. Paul can say whatever he likes about me, but it is ill-advised to tar Giovanni with the same brush.

    In a purely academic setting, your conventional subtlely might be meaningful. Here, not so much.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16838 posts Report Reply

  • Paul Litterick,

    Um Bongo
    Um Bongo
    They drink it in the Congo

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1000 posts Report Reply

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