I think shutting down a thread when women start to get openly angry is on the less helpful end of the range of actions you could take right now, given the context.
You just called anyone having a sub-conversation about this thread (or any other) on Twitter a coward. I am having a sub-conversation about this thread on Twitter: ergo, I am a coward. Not sure how this is unclear to you.
There are a lot of valid reasons for not posting here, Sacha, and I'd prefer not to be abused by you because sometimes I just can't face it.
There were a number of regular women posters who no longer post here or who post way less than they did. There are probably several reasons for this but I think we have to consider the possibility that one of those reasons is that PAS doesn't "do" feminist stuff as well as it might, but is concomitantly pretty unwilling to accept that it isn't a totally reasonable and enlightened community.
Not sure what the solution is for that, but I thought I'd put it out there.
Alan Parsons Project
Heh. Sausage-heavy musical genre obsessed with virtuosity contains problematic lyrics about women? I'm shocked. SHOCKED I say. ;)
The only value in this thread is if there are solutions.
I'm not trying to be an asshole here Bart, because you know I like you, but I really disagree. Talking about a thing - and talking about WHY we're talking about that thing in this particular way - serves a number of purposes too.
this weird way in which many of the “it wasn’t like this in the past” stories actually describe phenomena that are consistent with women feeling unsafe
Yes, yes! Sticking with a bunch of female friends, or making sure you attend something with a large defending dude by your side - that's not actually feeling safe, at all. But we're so conditioned to feel unsafe in all public space that that's what passes for it.
begins to degenerate into all men are bastards
Well, at least it took eleven pages for someone to play this tired old card. Which is progress of a kind.
the back of the hippy era and it was an altogether more sharing and caring age
I... suggest that for women and young girls it may have been somewhat less so.
particularly dudey haggling
By coincidence, that's the name of my next single.
is the problem with ‘this thread’ then that men aren’t listening?
Uh, kind of? Like, it seems that the thread is filled with women saying "twas ever thus" and guys saying "but I've noticed it now so it must be different" and explaining how very very different it is, and women being SIGH. (There is a sub-conversation going on on Twitter because that's where women talk more. Which should give us pause in itself.)
I'm not sure what everyone else was doing right, but I never got enough of a lump sum via NZ student loans to go to Japan or anywhere else. I basically got enough for fees and incidental expenses and that was it. I still have a bit of a debt from 1992 (topped up with some further study in the 2000s), and those years of interest really screwed me, although I was one of the lucky few who got full student allowances (basically by having to prove that my father was abusive, which wasn't traumatic at all). So now I'm 41 and I still owe $18,000. Winner.
I don't really like the "oh ho ho, you fell for his attention-seeking ploy, you fools!" rhetorical device, to be honest. Even if he is playing mind games, why am I, as a feminist, supposed to ignore deliberate provocation in the forlorn hope that it'll go away (it never does)? Fuck that.