Hard News by Russell Brown

Read Post

Hard News: Art and the Big Guy

165 Responses

First ←Older Page 1 3 4 5 6 7 Newer→ Last

  • Riddley Walker,

    thank you Master

    AKL • Since Feb 2007 • 890 posts Report Reply

  • Nobody Important,

    Not everyone aspires to being a paid pro, some play for other reasons

    Methinks Merc is actually Steve Crow.

    expat • Since Mar 2007 • 319 posts Report Reply

  • merc,

    It's just that I've seen firsthand what pro surfing and QuikBongRip has done for what is the most beautiful act you can do on water and how the grommets and parents have been affected by the marketing hype, they're not called pro ho's for nothing. Plus alot of local surfers rip better than the pro's.

    Since Dec 2006 • 2471 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford,

    Why do we subsidize the Americas cup?

    Since Nov 2006 • 2655 posts Report Reply

  • Riddley Walker,

    Why do we subsidize the Americas cup?

    wow, that's some segue.

    AKL • Since Feb 2007 • 890 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    perfectly serious hadyn. when something intrinsically rewarding is changed to being extrinsically rewarding, the peasure diminishes.
    don't believe me? try it some time. or google some of the literature on the topic.

    Bollocks. I love writing. I love it more when I get paid.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 18807 posts Report Reply

  • Ben Austin,

    money = love?

    London • Since Nov 2006 • 884 posts Report Reply

  • john shears,

    Bollocks. I love writing. I love it more when I get paid.

    Good one RB. On the subject of Art and royalties there seems to me to be some confusion. The original concept of protection of the rights of the person who conceived a new anything was to ensure that this anything could be enjoyed by all to the benefit of all rather than excellent ideas being hidden from the populace at large in case of exploitation.
    So we have Patents,Trademarks,Copyrights etc.
    and have had them for a good number of years,much longer than anyone reading or writing this thread and by and large they have worked.
    To say that the collection of royalties would be difficult is a nonsense it is happening right now and has done for many years,I have had personal experience in calculating and paying the royalties due.
    The difficulty with original works of art being sold at a higher price than the price paid to the artist is that we are not talking about a copy so copyright does not apply on the other hand we are certainly not talking about a product like baked beans.
    It seems to me that if the desire was there to support an Artist during his lifetime by the payment of some portion of the increased resale value of his work then there are likely to be enough lawyers who could figure a way of ensuring that this could be done in an equitable and workable way.
    A couple of instances that have worked well as far as copyrights are concerned are the Gilbert & Sullivan works which were very well controlled for 50 years after the death of G&S by the D'Oyley Carte Opera Co. who had the rights, and all Disney characters and any use of the original art in any shape or form on a world wide basis.

    Finally, even though a piece of graphic art such a a painting or drawing has been purchased the copyright belongs to the artist unless there is a written waiver of that right by the artist.
    Ad. Agencies make quite sure that such a waiver is signed even though the models used have been paid.

    Finally to rugby the other topic in this thread maybe some of the legals that draw up the contracts for rugby players
    (and the Americas Cup seeing as that has sneaked into the thread) could do some work on this in the off season.

    North Shore City • Since Nov 2006 • 21 posts Report Reply

  • 3410,

    when something intrinsically rewarding is changed to being extrinsically rewarding, the peasure diminishes. don't believe me? try it some time.

    Bollocks. I love writing. I love it more when I get paid.

    I think Riddley's point is that it is often very difficult to "get paid" without compromising the integrity of the art. If you're able to, then good luck to you. Most of us have to choose one over the other.

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 2618 posts Report Reply

  • Nobody Important,

    Finally, even though a piece of graphic art such a a painting or drawing has been purchased the copyright belongs to the artist unless there is a written waiver of that right by the artist.

    Interesting, because both Wedding and "boudoir" photographers have clauses asserting their copyright despite you commissioning them to take the pictures. I thought it was just a rort to get you to buy all the prints through them, but I see what cunning bastards they are now ...

    expat • Since Mar 2007 • 319 posts Report Reply

  • Nobody Important,

    Bollocks. I love writing. I love it more when I get paid.

    [Eric B]: Yo Rakim, what's up?
    [Rakim]: Yo, I'm doing the knowledge, E., I'm trying to get paid in full
    [E]: Well, check this out, since Nobry Walters is our agency, right?
    [R]: True
    [E]: Kara Lewis is our agent
    [R]: Word up
    [E]: Zakia/4th & Broadway is our record company
    [R]: Indeed
    [E]: Okay, so who we rollin with?
    [R]: We rollin with Rush
    [E]: Of Rushtown Management. Check this out, since we talking over
    this def beat that I put together, I wanna hear some of them
    def rhymes, know what I'm sayin? And together, we can get
    paid in full...

    [Rakim]
    Thinkin of a master plan
    Cuz ain't nuthin but sweat inside my hand
    So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent
    So I dig deeper but still comin up with lint
    So I start my mission- leave my residence
    Thinkin how could I get some dead presidents
    I need money, I used to be a stick-up kid
    So I think of all the devious things I did
    I used to roll up, this is a hold up, ain't nuthin funny
    Stop smiling, be still, don't nuthin move but the money
    But now I learned to earn cos I'm righteous
    I feel great! so maybe I might just
    Search for a 9 to 5, if I strive
    Then maybe I'll stay alive
    So I walk up the street whistlin this
    Feelin out of place cos, man, do I miss
    A pen and a paper, a stereo, a tape of
    Me and Eric B, and a nice big plate of
    Fish, which is my favorite dish
    But without no money it's still a wish
    Cos I don't like to dream about gettin paid
    So I dig into the books of the rhymes that I made
    To now test to see if I got pull
    Hit the studio, cos I'm paid in full

    expat • Since Mar 2007 • 319 posts Report Reply

  • Simon Grigg,

    [Eric B]: Yo Rakim, what's up?
    [Rakim]: Yo, I'm doing the knowledge, E., I'm trying to get paid in full

    The remix that Eric B & Rakim Hated in Full....but they still took that large cheque.

    I think Riddley's point is that it is often very difficult to "get paid" without compromising the integrity of the art.

    Now playing on iTunes...totally coincidently..EB & R - Follow The Leader

    Just another klong... • Since Nov 2006 • 3206 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford,

    "wow, that's some segue"

    Wow thank-you for pointing that out in such scholarly terms.
    Being that I am using this high end debating chamber as a means to improve my communication skills, being pulled up for saying stupid things of use.

    How about this then:

    "Tom, my brother was a professional rugby player and my nephew is, do you actually know any? Or any "artists" for that matter?"

    Sports people and artists have something in common. They can both be endowed with dyslexic attributes, yet still contribute positively towards Our National pride. They also provide valuable objects and events for literal people to Write about.

    But dyslexic people can also use bits and pieces of typography as a means of arguing the toss. As literal people can kick a ball around or dabble a bit of paint. My strength is in applied art.

    The simple definition of what art is, in context with the argument we have here is always going to be decided at the time of sale.
    If I make a squiggly object and you agree it is a fantastic piece of art. Then we have a deal. If I give you the Squiggly thing and you in-turn sell it, It becomes a more valuable piece of art. It is not about The squiggle it is about agreements.

    Sports people get public funding to better National pride, as do artists. But more often that not they will already be at the top of there game. And we know what sort of grumbling that can inspire especially when a donkey and a toilet are involved. For the rest we plod along doing what it takes to be taken seriously. And believe me life is hard for squiggle makers.

    Since Nov 2006 • 2655 posts Report Reply

  • Hadyn Green,

    I think Riddley's point is that it is often very difficult to "get paid" without compromising the integrity of the art.

    I'm not convinced. Especially because I was talking sport first.

    If you're doing something that you like and then someone says "here's some money, keep doing that thing but at least now you'll be able to eat and stuff", how does that make you less happy? (currently too lazy to google stuff)

    IF they start saying things like "here's some money, change what you're doing" then maybe it'd be less worth it.

    I can understand Merc's point as well about the lure of proffesionalism, but if you don't roll the dice you'll never win. And that is a completely different discussion.

    There is another tangential discussion about illusions too. You might follow your dream to be pro-surfer thinking it'll just be travel and girls/boys when in fact it's just a lot of sand in the crotch. (can you tell I've not surfed and should've picked another anaolgy?)

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 2081 posts Report Reply

  • merc,

    Thanks for the quote, this painter (Philip Trusttum) says alot well,
    http://www.trusttum.co.nz/comment/quotes.htm
    I like this one,

    I couldn’t care a stuff about the world. Painting keeps me off the streets and I take my brain for a walk…If everybody did that, there wouldn’t be any wars.

    Philip Trusttum, 1996

    Since Dec 2006 • 2471 posts Report Reply

  • merc,

    Being a pro surfer means having to go, say and do what you're told, every day while you're under contract and competing in events every week round the globe, often in sloppy 2 foot mush, hotel rooms, jetlag, customs and did I say...
    "Either you go out there and surf, or you go over there and fight, you're choice".
    Col. Kilgore to sufer kid after napalming entire village.

    Since Dec 2006 • 2471 posts Report Reply

  • Riddley Walker,

    yeah sorry steven, my apologies. and for the record i would much prefer to see the $ going to squiggle-makers than corporate advertising platforms masquerading as national heroes.

    AKL • Since Feb 2007 • 890 posts Report Reply

  • Riddley Walker,

    What i meant to say about the intrinsic/extrinsic reward topic is this:

    I am all for decent financial support of artists and artisans - my comment wasn't meant to be an argument for suggesting 'if they really enjoy their work they shouldn't get paid, or shouldn't get paid well', nor 'the thanks and adoration of the community should be sufficient recompense'. I also heartily disagree with the romantic agrarian psuedo-socialist view of poverty as having some kind of aesthetic and moral purity that makes it neato, and makes earning a decent living bad.

    In cases like RB's, where the lucky sod does something he loves and is good at, and gets paid for it too, well that's fantastic. But I think the ongoing pleasure derived has a lot to do with the autonomy i presume RB has managed to build into his professional life. If on the other hand you were required to sit in a room and churn out copy (even if it was stuff you were interested in and chose) every day 9-5 and failure to do so had dire economic consequences, then the fun would dry up pretty quick i expect. (There's another issue in that most good writers actually need to write for their sense of wellbeing, but let's leave that to the side for now.)

    Similarly there are many pass times I have that I love, but wouldn't love if I did them because I had to, because I needed or wanted to do it for the cash. Gardening, drinking and bonking come to mind, i'm sure there are many others. I guess the real issue (as with the 'stress effects' literature), is the locus of control. Typically, as merc alluded to above, getting paid to do something means a diminuition of autonomy. If you can get paid and maintain autonomy then that's likely a different matter again.

    There is also a ton of research on the effects of extrinsic motivation on behaviour, particulalry in the pediatric/education area, that show teachers and parents ought to be quite thoughtful about how they employ extrinsic reinforcement. See the following for example:

    overview
    definitions
    meta-analysis
    implications
    commercial applications
    lit review

    that's what i meant to say.

    AKL • Since Feb 2007 • 890 posts Report Reply

  • Hadyn Green,

    Yeah I agree. I've got a favourtie line I like to use: "work isn't fun, work is work, if it wasn't they'd call it play"

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 2081 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    In cases like RB's, where the lucky sod does something he loves and is good at, and gets paid for it too, well that's fantastic. But I think the ongoing pleasure derived has a lot to do with the autonomy i presume RB has managed to build into his professional life.

    Good point. Even in my last real job, which lasted five years, I went home for the power crisis, forgot to come back and spent the last two and half years working from home.

    I do work pretty hard, but a really core appeal of this gig is being able to write what I want, how I want. That, and being able to go and buy fish when I need to.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 18807 posts Report Reply

  • Riddley Walker,

    being at liberty to purchase fish is probably the most important, and often unsung factor in all this.

    AKL • Since Feb 2007 • 890 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford,

    What price?

    Since Nov 2006 • 2655 posts Report Reply

  • Riddley Walker,

    fresh fish is priceless my precious

    AKL • Since Feb 2007 • 890 posts Report Reply

  • merc,

    How did the surrealist change the light bulb?
    A fish.

    Since Dec 2006 • 2471 posts Report Reply

  • Riddley Walker,

    One Surrealist to Rule Them!

    AKL • Since Feb 2007 • 890 posts Report Reply

First ←Older Page 1 3 4 5 6 7 Newer→ Last

Post your response…

Please sign in using your Public Address credentials…

Login

You may also create an account or retrieve your password.