Field Theory by Hadyn Green

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Field Theory: Man Moments

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  • Tristan,

    I don't drink moa often either I find the bottle size annoying and expensive so it's not for me. Sorry I'm. Not familiar with their other advertising

    @emma I think one photo does alienate women and its a pity it's there because I think you can make the case that it colours the rest of the spreads

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 221 posts Report Reply

  • papango, in reply to Tristan,

    It's not just one photo. It's also the text. And the other photos, the way the men are named individuals and the women are swappable ornaments, that sort of thing.

    You don't think "our aspiring drinkers - those in the super-premium end of modern manhood" is alienating to women? Because I can't see any interpretation of that that doesn't specifically and deliberately exclude me as a customer.

    Wellington • Since Jan 2012 • 19 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart, in reply to Tristan,

    Not familiar with their other advertising

    Here's some.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4650 posts Report Reply

  • Samthecat,

    My stockbroker sent me an email saying "having seen this you won't want to bother " and he was right. If they were aiming for the wankers and arseholes market they may have a hit, otherwise not. (ps I am a woman and a NZ investor, yes we exist)

    Wellington • Since Feb 2010 • 8 posts Report Reply

  • Tristan,

    Good points the men are named because they work there and it would have been cool to have a women who works there in a suit doing the I rock this shit too vibe

    Also the copy is a bit over the top I agree.
    I guess I'm having trouble getting worked up by this on the beer/ sexism scale this is pretty mild to what tui et al serves up every week and I don't see PA posts on them.

    I wonder how much of the anger is because we found them out as being just like every other beer company

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 221 posts Report Reply

  • slarty,

    Hey, you know how much I love you guys. But can I respectfully suggest a little bit of getting over one-selves might be in order?

    FFS, if you don't like it, don't drink it and don't buy the shares. For goodness sake, this is sounding like a bunch of teenagers outraged the first time they notice that the world is a bit unfair. It's a marketing gimmic. A bunch of old white boomers who are nearly dead are going to shell out some cash. That's it. The sky is not going to fall on our heads.

    Some guy is even associating #momentsofmanhood with a child being shot in the head in Pakistan. For Christs sake, a bit of perspective please.

    And I know everyone's going to get defensive of their position now. So go on, unleash the intellectual vitriol. I'll check back in after a few days.

    In the mean time perhaps dwelling on that contemporaneous moment of loveliness across the water would alleviate your angst a bit?

    Since Nov 2006 • 290 posts Report Reply

  • Megan Wegan,

    Also the copy is a bit over the top I agree.
    I guess I’m having trouble getting worked up by this on the beer/ sexism scale this is pretty mild to what tui et al serves up every week and I don’t see PA posts on them.

    1) what Emma said.
    2) how nice for you that you can choose not to get worked up by sexism.
    3) If you can ignore the misogyny, can you find it in yourself to be annoyed by the way they are trying to sell a version of manhood that assumes all men aspire to the Aston-driving, swaggery, homophobic stereotype?
    4) Tui aside, plenty of beer brands, especially craft beer, manage to market themselves without pissing off large sections of the population.

    Welly • Since Jul 2008 • 1275 posts Report Reply

  • B Jones, in reply to Tristan,

    Tristan, I think it's because we expect more from a beer company pitching at a different market. It's one thing having the young yobs going for sexist marketing, it's another when marketers think that people like us would go for it as well. Overt sexism isn't really a feature of upper middle class hipster culture, and crafty beers (I can name a half dozen other ones like Moa - big bottle, high alcohol, strong flavour) seem to be the drink of choice of the upper middle class hipsters I know. Hence the dismay and confusion when an apparently hipster drink turns out to be intended for that horrible pack of yuppies who think that flashing around the dollars at Shed 5 makes them cool.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 976 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Tristan,

    I drink champagne but I don't get angry when I don't see men in a lindauer advert

    Actually I don't like that advert either, though it certainly has more humour to it. Demeaning one gender to sell stuff to the other is pathetic and lazy.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19661 posts Report Reply

  • Tristan,

    2) how nice for you that you can choose not to get worked up by sexism.

    And that's where I clock off. I'm trying to have a polite discussion and I don't think that's fair. Enjoy the rest of the discussion with out me

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 221 posts Report Reply

  • B Jones, in reply to slarty,

    A bunch of old white boomers who are nearly dead are going to shell out some cash. That's it.

    No, that's not it. Every person that encounters that campaign is going to be a little bit affected by bit, be it annoyed or excluded or impressed. It might be just another drop of water on the stalagmite, but that builds over time to create and reinforce a culture with a really crap image of what masculinity means - specifically, dominance over women and exclusion of them from all the cool stuff. It's so ubiquitous, we swim in it every day and most of us barely notice it.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 976 posts Report Reply

  • Peter Darlington,

    Word up Hadyn.

    Sad for the fact Moa has been a decent beer, it's not garbage like Fosters. And sad for Alan Scott who's been an iconic Marlborough wine maker from the beginning and now he's tied into this ridiculous bollocks. For me this is pissing on his heritage but I suspect I don't understand the market where it grows from NZ craft beer to internationally recognised piss water.

    Nelson • Since Nov 2006 • 948 posts Report Reply

  • B Jones, in reply to Tristan,

    I'm trying to have a polite discussion and I don't think that's fair. Enjoy the rest of the discussion with out me

    What, all of a sudden it's the height of rudeness to point out that men are affected differently by sexism and may not be as well attuned to it?

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 976 posts Report Reply

  • Megan Wegan,

    And that’s where I clock off. I’m trying to have a polite discussion and I don’t think that’s fair. Enjoy the rest of the discussion with out me.

    I'm sorry if you we're offended, but you've spent two pages telling us why you just can't get worked up over the prospectus. I, on the other hand, am really offended. First of all, I drink craft beer. A lot of it. And most of the people I know who also do are pretty pissed off buy Moa's bullshit.

    Second, as B points out, this kind of thing plays into the world we live in. Every time something like this is printed, it's more reinforcement that men are a certain way, and women are less than that. And yeah, I'm always going to be angry.

    Welly • Since Jul 2008 • 1275 posts Report Reply

  • Emma Hart, in reply to slarty,

    But can I respectfully suggest a little bit of getting over one-selves might be in order?

    For a start, the answer to that question was apparently "No you can't." Unless that word "respectfully" doesn't mean what you think it means.

    For goodness sake, this is sounding like a bunch of teenagers outraged the first time they notice that the world is a bit unfair.

    You what now? What about the discussion before you entered it wasn't calm and specific about what the problems are? You're baiting "intellectual vitriol", but no-one's been as insulting as you have. Not even close. Misogyny doesn't bother you. That's nice. And that of course makes you look much more mature than we.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4650 posts Report Reply

  • mark taslov, in reply to Emma Hart,

    “baiting” is a worthy word to raise in this context, it appears Moa have fallen hook line and sinker for the old “There is no such thing as bad publicity”. But we’ll see about that…

    Te Ika-a-Māui • Since Mar 2008 • 2281 posts Report Reply

  • Scott A,

    The more I think about this, the more I'm grinding my teeth at the constant use of the term "super-premium".

    What does that mean? "Premium" beers are those like Becks, Heineken, Stella Artois. Generic light lagers, indistinguishable in any kind of blind taste test, sold on image, brand loyalty, success-association, not about the quality, variety or taste of the beer.

    Is "super-premium" that, but more so? Even more focus on brand, image, success-association, even less attention to quality, variety and taste of the beer?

    You'd certainly think so, based on the guff in the prospectus. I admit to not close reading the whole thing, but I didn't see any mention on the variety, quality or taste of Moa's beers - some of which are outstanding ales.

    I drink craft beer for the taste experiences new and varied beers bring. I also partake in the culture because it's not about New Zealand's "beer culture". It's not about lowest-common-denominator blokey sexist promotion. It's not about objectification of women. It's about the beer, the people who make it, the people who enjoy it (and, yes, women drink beer too!), and the relationships between them.

    Moa's advertising of their product abandoned that culture years ago. Now their promotion to investors seemingly confirms that they don't see themselves as a craft beer brewer. They want to play the old school, old boys club, big beer manufacturer, where they sale is done on brand and image, not the beer itself.

    The wilds of Kingston, We… • Since May 2009 • 132 posts Report Reply

  • Robyn Gallagher,

    Just imagine if Ecoya candles used similar marketing in their prospectus. Something along the lines of "Hey ladies, you deserve to be pampered because aren't men useless? Don't they make your lives a shitbox with all their dumb demands and general helplessness? Well, you can make all that go away with a super premium smelly candle."

    It would be awful.

    Raglan • Since Nov 2006 • 1946 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Robyn Gallagher,

    not light years from 'don't cry, you hopeless blokes, the wimmins is off drinking plonk together'

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19661 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Robyn Gallagher,

    Ecoya candles

    yes, perhaps Mr Ross is overcompensating for his other investment

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19661 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to Tristan,

    Oh Christ now we are upset that a beer company goes after the male market instead of female ?

    Nah, I'm actually upset that it does so in such a fucked-up, demeaning and really bizarre kind of way. I have a cock, and used to drink quite a lot. Not beer, but as much from the top shelf as I could afford. Still don't feel particularly "aspirational" about turning a woman into a living ashtray stand.

    Oh, and if I was launching an IPO I wouldn't try quite so hard to alienate half my potential investors. The idea that women wouldn't be interested in investing in beer is as thoroughly dopey as thinking fashion is unmanly -- Bernard Arnault is a multi-billionaire, in large part due to very expensive frocks, shoes and handbags.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Tom Beard, in reply to Robyn Gallagher,

    Just imagine if Ecoya candles used similar marketing in their prospectus.

    Did you see how Ecoya was advertised within this prospectus?

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 1040 posts Report Reply

  • Hadyn Green, in reply to Tom Beard,

    Just imagine if Ecoya candles used similar marketing in their prospectus.

    Did you see how Ecoya was advertised within this prospectus?

    Yes, to men. Given Ross' comments that women should be bought Ecoya for Christmas and that the ad features naked women, you have to think that the ads are designed for men who have no idea what their partners want but want to buy a nice gift.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 2090 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to Hadyn Green,

    you have to think that the ads are designed for men who have no idea what their partners want but want to buy a nice gift.

    Or a hitherto unsuspected lesbian/bi niche in the scented candle market. Or something. Damn, I've passed through "what were you thinking" to "are you capable of thinking at all" with this lot.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic, in reply to Scott A,

    They want to play the old school, old boys club, big beer manufacturer, where they sale is done on brand and image, not the beer itself.

    Again, Fosters is held up by the Moa crew as something to aspire to, instead of as a cautionary tale.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5414 posts Report Reply

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