Hard News: A revolting piece of shit
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OK, so I've watched the video a couple of times - first time 'cos I had no idea what it was, not living in NZ anymore, the second after reading a lot of the comments.
Second time, also, with the sound off, 'cos the "music" is, IMO, a lousy Eminem rip off, and if I want to listen to Eminem, I'll put his music on.
It's (IMO) actually a load _worse_ with the sound off. I imagine, if you edited Slim Shandy out (whats his name? Seriously, I had to look it up on LudditeJourno) it would be even more so.
My problem with it is context - or lack of it. There is nothing in the first 1:45 which wouldn't come up in an episode of Sopranos, Millenium, CSI or Dexter, except that those shows then have another 40 mins of context around them, either catching the person - and hence showing the viewer that no, thats not a good thing to do if you dont want to spend the rest of your life in jail - or explaining that the victim was a "bad person" (in the case of dexter). Tho I can't see how that would be the case here.
For me, it's on about a level with SAW, or Cube. It's not ever going to be shown before the watershed, and it's not something I want to watch again.
If you put the same level of sex on screen, the title sequence would be Californication. But again, that has context - how fucked up hank's life is, and the consequences around the actions. The writers have time to work with it. Someone commented on 24 being similar - I've not watched it, but from what I know of it, they'd be about right.
Due to it's short format, this video has none of that context, which I think is more the issue that people have. It leaves the rest of it up to your imagination, which is, frankly, a more scary thing than the video itself.
For me, the take aways are:
* the production values of hiphop in NZ has got higher (ie, more money) since I left NZ, but the content is still at the gutter level it was. I was expecting bitches-and-bling, I got torture porn (both musically and visually). I dont much like either.
* Watch out for that director and whoever edited and produced it. Thats some seriously polished work on a small budget. Get those people out of music videos and into features or TV.
* I really hope no one decides it might be a good idea to repeat this, in real life, on some tourists (or locals for that matter). it's happened too often already. But sadly, I suspect it might.
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* Watch out for that director and whoever edited and produced it. Thats some seriously polished work on a small budget. Get those people out of music videos and into features or TV.
Aaaaaah, so it's a showreel. Gottit. All that fuss over a little cunt or three whose towering ambition is to clean up bigtime pimping cognac to coloured kids. Or wannabe coloured kids, more likely.
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I don't fear copycat acts, more the contribution to expectations.
Tim Van Dammen has made many music vids, viewable here
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* Watch out for that director and whoever edited and produced it. Thats some seriously polished work on a small budget. Get those people out of music videos and into features or TV.
I think you'll find that papa prevailed on his friends in the screen industry for this clip, and that it cost more than $5000.
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Seriously? The same Mike King who's so concerned about animal welfare?
That really sucks. -
In firewall terms, the Aussie firewall has gone from child abuse images, through violent games, to a ban on imagery of women with an A cup size. Why should we be any different?
Well, for a start, because we always have been, right since our respective governments first weighed up the issue of how to approach this new medium.
But I can't get past the way you insist on depicting something that, for the time being, is a liberal and democratic process.
If Bill Hastings wanted to yank this clip from the internet immediately, he'd rush through a decision. But he isn't. He has said so, and he's asking for submissions. How hard is it to grasp that an exchange of arguments could be useful?
Crazy as it may seem, Rich, not everyone shares your open-and-shut view of censorship issues. But everyone, under the law, has the right to make a complaint. Even the dicks at the SPCC.
The Chief Censor's office gets a shitload of absolutist rhetoric from those people. I think it's reasonable to allow it to listen to a range of arguments.
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I'm not even going to bother commenting on the vid o' shite, because I'm afraid violence-against-women as a cheap trope to cash in on is about as cre8ive, dude, as rape, partner abuse and family violence in general.
Regarding the Icelandic ban, eh, as a rabid but post-sex-wars feminist, it smacks as throwing the baby out with the bathwater. You're not buying and selling -women- in the club, you're buying their performance time.
As to how women might start working at the clubs, then investigate that aspect. Come down like a ton of bricks if people are being trafficked, health and safety regulations are being breached, the workers are not being paid properly, work excessive hours, etc. They got Al Capone through taxes in the end.
For prostitution, criminalising that is futile, although it does make more sense to penalise the punters rather than the pros. But prostitution will never be got rid of, so it should be dealt with in the same way as any other occupation.
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I think you'll find that papa prevailed on his friends in the screen industry for this clip, and that it cost more than $5000.
I'd challenge you to find a decent music video which costs less :)
Actually, I'm not, 'cos I'm sure there are examples, and both of us have better things to do - but you get the idea - NZOA is only providing _some_ of the funding, and from what's been said, none of the opening. Someone provided the rest - be it King Sr or the record label.
I'm not sure what the purpose of the NZOA funding is anymore. To do a good video is going to cost a lot lot more than 5K, so really it's just a bit of funding for the record companies (or indys). Maybe they need to fund things where the total budget is no more than 2x the NZOA funding - ie people who wouldn't actually make the video if it wasn't for NZOA....
Aaaaaah, so it's a showreel. Gottit. All that fuss over a little cunt or three whose towering ambition is to clean up bigtime pimping cognac to coloured kids. Or wannabe coloured kids, more likely.
Not at all what I implied - I just said it was polished work, rather than cheaply thrown together crap (even if the content is)
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Censorship should be confined to works where someone was actually abused in making the piece.
Well... no. Nobody was abused in the making of Pan's Labyrinth (apart from the miserably cold location shoot), and I'm still pretty relaxed with the R16 classification that makes it a criminal offence to show the DVD to my eleven year old grand-nephew. Wonderful film, but I'm not too torn up with the idea that he can wait a few more years to see a film that contains some astoundingly graphic violence, including the abuse and eventual murder of a child.
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as a rabid but post-sex-wars feminist
Ah, but are the sex-wars over? I feel like we're still just in the middle of it - and it's a hundred years' war. Sure, we have gained a certain amount of free expression (and some crucial decriminalisation), but we are still subject to many of the same old ills (take back the night lately, anyone?), and a few new wrinkles that are, if anything, worse than ever (the perfectionist, one-size-fits-all pornification of pop culture being one).
So, yeah, our daughters and sons can pretty much do what they like in bed without fear of cops bursting into the room waving their truncheons. But they still have to walk past a wall of Phwoar Boobs for Gentlemen!, Real Live Bottoms, and Jug-Fanciers Monthly to buy a bottle of milk or a chocolate fish at the dairy - and half of them daren't do it after dark.
I'm not a pessimist, but I dunno, somehow I thought we'd be a bit further down the line, twenty years on from when I first started thinking about this stuff.
You're not buying and selling -women- in the club, you're buying their performance time.
That is a crucial distinction, ta -- and it's true of many a job.
As to how women might start working at the clubs, then investigate that aspect. Come down like a ton of bricks if people are being trafficked, health and safety regulations are being breached, the workers are not being paid properly, work excessive hours, etc.
They absolutely did but tended to only find the really dodgy stuff by accident. Of course, by closing down the known businesses, you're only left with the unknowns, and not necessarily any closer to finding the real lawbreakers. I guess the hope is that in a place as small as Iceland, there are no secrets.
What are the odds, though; am picturing a small country that decides to go 100% vegetarian. I bet you could sniff your way to a bacon speakeasy if you put your mind to it.
They got Al Capone through taxes in the end.
And fixed the drunk driving problem once and for all :-)
The porn will always be with us, I suppose, as the Bible might have said if it had thought about it. Still, I'm enjoying my little Gate To Women's Country [spoilers!] moment while it lasts.
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I suppose growing up in the early 90's when there was quite a groundswell of musicians who were 'angry' but more importantly had something to say, its really frustrating to see the downward spiral that has occured with female popular music, ie getting you tits out is deemed to be 'groundbreaking' see Lady Gaga. It disturbs me that young girls are growing up with this notion. Maybe they need to see a Sleater-Kinney (RIP) t-shirt from a wee while ago: "Show me your riffs".
Yeah. I grew up at the same time, listening to similar music, and have the same impression. It's sad and frustrating. Although, to be fair, there are still any number of angry women in music with something to say (see, e.g.):
It's just that they get practically no media attention, and basically starve. But looking back on that transition in musical and popular culture that took place in the mid-'90s -- represented on one hand by the rise of "lad culture" and on the other by the omnipresence of the gansta aesthetic -- you can't tell me that there wasn't a masculinist backlash at work. Dirty Sesh is just the end-game of that particular movement. In that respect, he's the local equivalent of Soulja Boy. It's not pretty.
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in the best hip hop "tradition" someone has responded to dirty sesh.... link mangled a bit as Russell probably won't want this on PA either
http://wwwDOTyoutubeDOTcom/watch?v=O1vUkQxtlzU
Sesh' kindly replied with
http://soundcloud.com/kirkmtc/derty-sesh-lil-pekaand then this hash dude didnt like him as well.
http://www.zshare.net/audio/74168971281c0b25/ -
In defiance of all I said yesterday I sat through the whole video this morning.
Others have said it all before but basically it's a straight rip on Eminem (particularly The Marshall Mathers LP and also his recent 3 O'Clock single and video) without a shred of the black humour or knowingness that partly redeems Eminem's violent vids and lyrics. I probably could have done without that crime victim montage at the start too.
Sorry Robbie, but this particular middle-class white dude doesn't see a real player here to be hating on, just a posturing kid who's probably going to look back on this tasteless horrorshow ripoff and cringe.
you can't tell me that there wasn't a masculinist backlash at work. Dirty Sesh is just the end-game of that particular movement. In that respect, he's the local equivalent of Soulja Boy. It's not pretty.
+1
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Nah that would be "A revolting little shit" :)
watching "Rortney" Hide on the telly last night - squirming next to "Nicker" Smith while announcing the excising of the elected Ecan board - it struck
me that he's looking more and more like Gollum,
or is it just me... -
Is it just me, or has the Forever video gone from youtube?
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"This video has been removed by the user."
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Fancy that. This means that my only chance to hear this guy is his response to that diss track. He sounds so much like Eminem that I didn't realise it wasn't, for about two minutes.
/edit I mean, I know he meant to, but still.
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in the best hip hop "tradition" someone has responded to dirty sesh...
I like both those answer tracks: the first one is catchy but the second one is cleverer:
The best since Shady?
More like the best since Evanesence, maybe -
OT, but on the subject of "groundbreaking"... if you haven't already heard about this viral, check it out. Something genuinely beautiful & creepy, for the feminists & those not partial to Lady Gaga. Watch all the vids, in order. Google iamamiwhoami and you'll find a stack of crazies insisting that it's definitely christina aguilera (it's not, obviously), and somewhere, someone that's done some great work deciphering the series as the birth of a mandrake.
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I guess part of peoples response is that when you have an actual feature movie or TV show, it's made by a writer/director/producer team and some actors. The actors are playing the parts they get given, and there's a clear disconnect between their actual personality and the part. (mostly).
So in the case of American Psycho, Christian Bale isn't really a psychopath and nor is Bret Easton Ellis.
With musicians, there is a vague tradition that you sing about your actual life, or a poetic variation it. So when a rapper comes across as a misogynist psychopath, there's an expectation that they really *are* such a person, and they're expected to live that up, at least when on public display.
In reality of course, Nathan is a blameless young kid from a somewhat middle class background. If he was actually the character depicted, he wouldn't be out there rapping, he'd be in jail.
I guess that's part of the thing.
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the second one is cleverer:
Can't seem to get it to play, more's the pity - media has been "opening" for about four minutes now...
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Crazy as it may seem, Rich, not everyone shares your open-and-shut view of censorship issues
I know that. I'm just giving you my opinion.
Plus I do feel that if you look at the history of censorship in NZ (useful resource) we had a period years ago when Penthouse was banned and publication was a difficult and easy to control process. Then the process got liberalised and the Internet came along, which means that basically if content is legal somewhere in the world (and in particular in the US), it couldn't be blocked.
Now governments have caught up and are using technology to reverse this process. I think that's a worry (and so do various others). I don't share your view that our government is intrinsically more sensible than Australia's and can be trusted on this.
(Also, giving stuff an R18 rating or whatever is classification, not censorship. I don't have a problem with this, so long as one doesn't turn into the other).
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In reality of course, Nathan is a blameless young kid from a somewhat middle class background. If he was actually the character depicted, he wouldn't be out there rapping, he'd be in jail.
Yeah, I think we all grasp that people play parts. But I gather that a number of people spoke to daddy along the way about the somewhat troubling content of his teenage boy's work.
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Can't seem to get it to play, more's the pity - media has been "opening" for about four minutes now...
You should be able to download it from that page if you wanna.
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It finally came through. Nice. I wonder how much decent local underground rap is just hiding away on sites like zshare?
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