Hard News: Awful in more than one way
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sorry ...the first German "land" defeat.....
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yeah... i was kind of going for dramatic effect there...
but nth africa was a clincher. access to russia thru the caucasus would certainly have made for a different war.
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I don't think anyone is proposing that we adopt US gun laws.
oh totally.
after reading James Bremner's posts (and seeing that top gear episode!), it makes me wonder if there'd be much less gun ownership if there was less inequality and fear in the southern states. i must admit, if i felt my family was in danger, i'd be looking at forms of protection. although, unless you can deflect bullets with a handgun, you better be prepared to shoot someone as a form of defence. which kind of adds to the whole atmosphere of fear doesn't it
and that was why i was feeling smug about living here in NZ, where i don't have to worry about other people with concealed handguns
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3410,
yep, we can kill, bomb, invade who we like because Hollywood has given us a version of the past that gives us that license.
...because military representatives vet the scripts, ie If you don't make sure that the US armed forces look like the heeeroes of the piece, you don't get to borrow the tanks, choppers etc.
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WH,
er ... so why aren't they up in arms about what Bush and his minions (or is that visa versa) are doing (have done) to their prescious Constitution.
That is something you would have to ask them. If I had to guess, I'd say the modern Republican movement is a reactionary political force.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_war -
I was about to say "what about the crazy defeats inflicted by the British Imperial forces upon the Italians in Italian Africa till (march?) 1941?"
and no, I don't think people thought italians were quite the loleasybeats they later became stereotyped as (although this probably was the campaign that started this)
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Robyn,
subsequent to the publication of Freakonomics another researcher found an error in Levitt's code. Levitt corrected the error and his data still seemed to show the 'abortion effect'; however, people who know much more about econometrics than me (such as the blogger Daniel Davies over at Crooked Timber) claim that whether you get the 'abortion effect' from the data in question is now much less reliant to changes in regression specification. So Levitt's case is not the open and shut one it appeared like it might be at some time.
As far as I'm aware two factors that tend to correlate well with violent crime are inequality (perhaps, more accurately, relative poverty)* and demography. The very high levels of violent crime in the US that trended downwards from the 1990s probably were also a result of the crack epidemic. (The Long Boom's impact on unemployment must have helped too).
Oh, and everyone else, this blog post from the Nation's website suggests that the American public aren't as wedded totheir gun law as one might think.
*Richard Wilkinson's book the Impact of Inequality makes this claim along with others in arguing the inequality matters.
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replace 'reliant' with 'resilient' and my last post would almost make sense...
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Good old Ian Wishart hints at dark forces that were really behind the evil dead.
What is wrong with him?
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er... the evil deed
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WH,
Hey Mark,
where i don't have to worry about other people with concealed handguns
Yeah - New Zealand's gun control laws seem like a good idea to me. That said, our police force seems to have had its share of problems recently, and that concerns me.
Traditionally the Democrats have been advocates of tougher gun restrictions, but US demographics can make that a difficult platform for those running in marginal and/or rural areas. The Democrats are good people I think but 12 years out of power has taught them some tough lessons about wedge politics.
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Some of the anti American comments in the Herald's blog about the VT shooting were just utterly tasteless and appalling and deserved some scathing replies, the comments were not something to be proud of at all. You would think that people would be decent enough not to use a tragedy such as the VT shooting to puke up a bunch of anti-American bile, but apparently that would be to give too much credit to too many people. Shame on them. When Americans read that kind of garbage, you can't blame them for developing "f#@k off all of you" sentiments. And anyway, coming from NZ it is kind of like the flea lecturing the elephant. Also as NZers, like most of the rest of the world are voracious consumers of all things American, from technology, to business ideas, to films, music and Lord knows only what else, and whose Government is frantically trying to suck up to the US to get a trade deal that would improve the living standards of New Zealanders’, so it really is all a bit rich.
A couple of other points
Here is an interesting article on gun crime in the UK v the US that has some stats that goes back over a hundred years. An interesting perspective.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/2656875.stm
I saw Weston writing that “the Democrats are good people”, and implying that people who are not Dems, Repubs, are not good people. That view is a prevalent view held in NZ and much of the world, and it is wrong and just way too simplistic.
There are plenty of both Dems and Repubs in D.C and around the US who are great people, honest, intelligent, decent hard working people, just fine people. And there are plenty of both Dems and Repubs in D.C and around the US who are vile, lousy, lazy stupid, corrupt, dishonest scumbags. A few quick examples, the Repubs have their Duke Cunninghams, Abramoffs and Bill Neys, and the Dems have their Dan Rostenkowskis, Bill Jeffersons and if you believe recent reports, apparently Diane Feinsteins, there are plenty of other examples on both sides. Neither Dems or Repubs have a monopoly on either virtue or vice. If you understand this fact, you will have a much better foundation on which to build an understanding of the US and US politics and be able to more effectively screen what you get in the media and on the web.
I can’t resist diving into a WWII discussion!!“Nov 1942, many consider the turning point in the Second World War. Four major campaigns were undertaken during this period, costing hundreds of thousands of lives and sending the enemy, Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan, on the defensive for the first time in three years. The battles were Alamein, Guadalcanal, Stalingrad, and Torch.” Without a doubt the Battles of Britain and Midway were critical as well.
Were the Yanks at Guadalcanal and Torch? Hmm, let me think…
As for El Alamein, while there may not have been many P51s at El Alamein, that might have more to do with the fact that P-51Bs and Cs started to arrive in England in August and October 1943, which would be after El Alamein. Hard for a piece of equipment to be in a battle before it has been made!!
As for the Yanks’ contribution at El Alamein, let me quote the BBC for you from the link below:“Three hundred Sherman tanks that were hastily shipped to Egypt from the USA were a crucial influence on the outcome of this battle. The tanks gave Montgomery a significant advantage in firepower.”
Monty had about 1200 tanks, so about 25% were American made and delivered. Rommel had 500 tanks, so in one go the Yanks gave Monty 60% of Rommel’s tank strength. I think most people would call that a significant contribution.
More from the Beeb: “The Second Battle of El Alamein was a turning point in the North African campaign. It ended the long fight for the Western Desert, and was the only great land battle won by the British and Commonwealth forces without direct American participation.”
Here is how the tanks got to the battlefield.
http://www.usmm.org/seatraintexas.html
As for the Yanks contribution to the Soviet effort, the book linked to below, “Feeding the Bear” concludes that:
“The Soviet Union most likely would have survived without Lend Lease . . . but the war would have been much longer, the alliance less firm and the victory less complete.'
http://www.greenwood.com/catalog/VTL%252f.aspx
Without the Yanks WWII would have ended up a nightmare with Japan ruling the Pacific and either Hitler or Stalin ruling Europe and central Asia.
Stop to ponder that thought for a moment before you whine and complain and spit bile over America again.
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wishart. is. a. fucking. lunatic.
cheong was a seriously screwed up kid, not a muslim terrorist.
have trouble sleeping at night ian? that's because you are a fraud and a liar.
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I found the wall to wall coverage of Cho's video and 'manifesto' pretty disgusting - isn't it just giving that loser what he wanted?
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I found the wall to wall coverage of Cho's video and 'manifesto' pretty disgusting - isn't it just giving that loser what he wanted?
Yes, but I bet NBC News's ratings, website hits and trackbacks, Google ranking, Nexis-Lexis hits etc. all went through the roof... and that's all that really matters, isn't it?
But to be honest, what really disturbs me is the amount of parlour psychoanalysis going of Cho going on - and being someone who's been involved in the real deal, I don't think this is going to be a very good time to be a male who is either depressive or just socially inept on campus.
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And how quickly does tragedy turn into a black farce? Try lthis:
Pastor Fred, a/k/a/ Fred Waldron Phelps Sr., who refers to himself and his grown children as “the most hated family in America,” claims he and his Topeka, Kansas-based Westboro Baptist ‘church’ –which is made up almost entirely of his own offspring– are heading to Virginia Tech in order to ‘protest’ the funerals of the slain students and professors. He claims he will use bullhorns and that his family will carry large placards saying some version of “God Hates Virginia Tech.” He claims his ‘gospel’ for the occasion will be, ‘God is glad that the students and professors at VT were slain; that the massacre was God’s happy retribution for the USA’s love of homosexuals.’
Pastor Fred’s modus operandi is to appear, rather like Rodan, over funerals at disaster sites, funerals of fallen soldiers who served in Iraqi, funerals of persons who have died of AIDS, and essentially any funeral that big media cameras and journalists are known to be covering.
His strategy is to position himself and his family in as close proximity to the funeral corteges and graveside rituals as possible, to position himself and his family within crystal clear hearing of the grieving families and friends….all in order to unleash an acid screed on the innocent mourners.
My God... there are times when your faith in the fundamental decency of man, and democratic values that say you cant kick the crap out of people exercising their democratic freedoms in a manner you find repugnant, are sorely tested.
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spelt the kids name wrong in my anger...
but, have walked away for awhile, and... i'm still pissed off at that wishart statement.
the point of the name "ismail" is that this guy probably identifies with ishmael, the son disowned by abraham.
he's probably doing what most isolated kids do and identifying with something the mainstream dislike, 'islam'. back in my day it was heavy metal, or goth music.
for wishart to state that "the religion of peace" is to blame for this, is fundamentally dishonest.
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James, most NZers are aware of the debt we owe to the U.S. It is plain to see that without their soldiers in WW2 New Zealand would not be as it is now, would be much worse. I tell my kids exactly that whenever the subject arises.
The world has changed since then, however, and,yes, it is wrong to castigate America about this massacre but every criticism of the actions of the U.S. government cannot be brushed off as anti-Americanism or a lack of gratitude.
If you look at the pieces (of what?) by Reynolds and Malkin cited in Russells' original blog , you will see the absolute nadir of anti-Americanism in my view. A rejection of the open, thoughtful, considered America which has been and still is such a beacon. Have a quick trawl around the Right Wing blogosphere and you will also find an increasing theme of citicism of the actions of the survivors, truly the depths of anti-Americanism, written by Americans. The worst is coming from within.
I don't know enough about WW2 to debate about the Americans contribution I just know it was crucial. But do not discount the actions of the Commonwealth troops and European troops. They helped save their own arses.
And I know that we are a pipsqueak country on the edge of the world, but I think that gives us a different perspective on the world that should not be discounted just because it is different.
Cheers, hamishm -
“Nov 1942, many consider the turning point in the Second World War. Four major campaigns were undertaken during this period, costing hundreds of thousands of lives and sending the enemy, Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan, on the defensive for the first time in three years. The battles were Alamein, Guadalcanal, Stalingrad, and Torch.” Without a doubt the Battles of Britain and Midway were critical as well.
I suspect if you went to 10 different web sites on this topic you'd come up with 10 different lists. For victories I'd put the D-Day invasion well above Operation Torch. I think I'd almost put the invasion of Sicily and the withdraw of Italy from the war above Torch.
Most lists also ignore significant battles that weren't victories. Pearl Harbour, and the missing battle ships that the Japanese weren't able to hit (indeed attacking Pearl Harbour at all, how long would the USA have stayed out of the war without it?), Barbarossa, which came close to, but failed to take Moscow. Dunkirk, which was a military disaster, but morally provided an 'escape' which led the British to believe they still had an army. The Bulge, which got bogged down through lack of fuel, but which came very close to turning around the Western Front, and had an impact upon the post-war world through influencing where the relative end points of Russian and Western forces were.
Monty had about 1200 tanks, so about 25% were American made and delivered. Rommel had 500 tanks, so in one go the Yanks gave Monty 60% of Rommel’s tank strength. I think most people would call that a significant contribution.
Che's point was that America was only physically involved in a some of the major battles of the war. Some their only involvement was selling arms which were used in the battles, through a lending scheme. James you've quoted several examples which just back up his point.
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I think the obvious point here is that the US wasn't in the war to 'save New Zealand', a bunch of distant islands 95% of Americans would never have heard of. They were in the war because the Japanese invaded the Philippines, which was a US occupied territory, and bombed their fleet in Hawaii. Defending New Zealand was a nice accidental side effect of their efforts but it had nothing to do with their motives for fighting the war.
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indeed. guadalcanal would not been possible had midway not been such a great victory. but midway would not have been possible had the american carrier fleet been in pearl harbour on dec 7th. torch on the other hand was a landing in the face of light opposition.
i would also add that the greatest tool of world war 2 was not the sherman tank. the sherman was a light piece of crap universally derided by the allies. it was commonly known by the british as the "tommy cooker" because of high causalities.
the russians only used them because they had to. their real advantage was the t-34, a tank feared by the germans and which lead directly to the development of the tiger and panther series.
the greatest tool of the war was bletchley park. three cheers for the boys with the leather elbow patches!
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James,
I have to give you points for trying. As Hamish notes we are all aware of the US contribution to WW2. It's not in dispute but it was sixty years ago..we move on, it's irrelevant... and it's offensive to the memory of those non Americans who also contributed,fought bravely and died in vast numbers for Americans to bleat loudly over and over again "we saved your arse".However, Torch, in all the dozens of books and military histories I've read over the years, has never rated as more than a mopping up operation after Alamein, which was the turning point, and the American role was something of a disaster from a military point of the view. Heard of Kasserine Pass?
P-51s...it was a symbolic aside..I know the history of the aircraft...perhaps the most important aircraft of the ETO. It was designed by North American for the RAF, picked up by the USAAF and was largely unsuccesful until it was powered by a British engine...the Merlin, as also found in the Spitfire (& the Lancaster & Hurricane), probably the other crucial aircraft of the ETO. Like WW2, it was an Allied effort.
The American built plane that was found in numbers at Alamein (there were others including the Maryland too in small numbers) was the P-40 (also later powered by the Merlin) which, like the Shermans were sold to the British at some profit under lend lease. The same program which armed and aided the Soviets.
It's an interesting but important aside that the US, despite it's vast contribution in manpower and industry, was tthe only nation to come out of WW2 better off than when it went it...it made money out of the war, and continued to do so until lend-lease was paid off this year. As a condition of Lend-lease the British too had to hand over much of their US based industry to Americans. Universal which dominates the world's music industry has its roots in UK Decca, which the British owners were obliged to sell to the US manager at a loss in 1943. And technology too...how did the US get the jet engine? Or much other technology. Overall about 25% of the UK's munitions came from the US...but they were paid for.
It's also an unassailable fact that without Soviet input its doubtful whether the Western Allies could have defeated Nazi Germany in conventional terms, without nuking Berlin or Hamburg or the like, or without massive, and I would suggest, unacceptable, loss of life. Either way it would have meant that the Pacific war would have been much much longer or unwindable for some years...remember in August 1945 the US had exhausted it's nuclear arsenal until mid 1946. Prior to to VE Day there was a real problem with a US manpower shortage in Europe and Marshall gave real consideration to taking 200,000 Marines from the Pacific and thus putting much of that theatre on the back burner. The Western front was staggering a little as the Soviets swept into Germany.
Stop to ponder that thought for a moment before you whine and complain and spit bile over America again.
I pondered but your argument came up short.
You've still not dealt with the links earlier in this thread that others asked you to ponder.
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nice post, hamishm. there's 300 million -odd people in america, it's pretty hard to make gross generalisations about all of them.
what's all this stuff about world war 2?
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merc,
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what's all this stuff about world war 2?
apparently all criticism of america is to be stopped immediately, because they "saved the world" in dubya, dubya two.
we've been pointing out that this was not the case.
but merc just godwined the thread with a three year old story about the bushes being supporters of nazi germany. thank god.
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