Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Dotcom: Further news of the unlikely

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  • bob daktari, in reply to Kumara Republic,

    Is it me, or is the whole Anglosphere seemingly going down that path?

    You're not alone.... naked greed coupled with a complete lack of morals or even the hint of common decency

    good times ahead, given the problems we collectively face

    auckland • Since Dec 2006 • 540 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Gary Young,

    and if he is signalling well ahead of time that he plans to release it with the clear intent of damaging the legitimate government of the day and also affecting the outcome of an election then isn’t he skating perilously close to the old idea of sedition?

    No.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22834 posts Report Reply

  • Idiot Savant, in reply to Gary Young,

    and if he is signalling well ahead of time that he plans to release it with the clear intent of damaging the legitimate government of the day and also affecting the outcome of an election then isn't he skating perilously close to the old idea of sedition?

    No.

    Could this not backfire spectacularly with another visit from large gentlemen in dark glasses coming to take him away for threatening the security of the state?

    Under what law? Sedition was repealed in 2007.

    Palmerston North • Since Nov 2006 • 1716 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Useful points from Gordon campbell:

    As things stand, the New Zealand extradition hearing will rely on what is called the “record of the case” – which is essentially just a mere summary of the US allegations. Rulings in the Court of Appeal and Supreme Court have narrowed the evidence that needs to be presented in order to validate “the record of the case.” As a consequence, our extradition process risks being just a rubber stamp. In their efforts to widen the ambit of the extradition process, it should be emphasised that the Dotcom legal team have not been engaged in a wholesale fishing expedition. During the District Court ruling by Judge David Harvey and the High Court ruling by Judge Helen Winkelman, it was made clear that the evidence being requested was specific and was focussed on acknowledged defects in the record of the case. In her dissenting minority opinion in the Supreme Court Chief Justice Sian Elias made that same point:

    Since it is accepted that the record of the case on this view is incomplete, the deficiency must be remedied if the Minister wishes to proceed on it. That conclusion would be sufficient to dispose of the appeal, since the disclosure ordered in my view does not go further than to remedy the deficiency in the record of the case…..Mine is however a minority conclusion in this Court. It is therefore necessary for me to explain why I consider that the court determining eligibility for surrender has inherent power to compel disclosure for the purpose of the fair determination whether a prima facie case of commission of the offence has been established. Such powers in my view clearly extend to documents which are relied on to evidence the commission of the offence, and justify putting the person on trial…

    Exactly. As things stand, the US is using the New Zealand legal system as a tool to send someone halfway round the world to face criminal charges without first being able to see the evidence against them. One does not have to like Dotcom to feel deep misgivings about this situation. The email trail is part of the skein of evidence. A non-redacted version of these emails has to be made available to the courts and to the Dotcom defence team, by one means or another. In the meantime, the Crown needs to explain why a redacted version of them wasn’t handed over to Dotcom sooner – given that they could now enable an appeal against some of the court decisions already reached.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22834 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Russell Brown,

    No.

    full marks for economy. :)

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19719 posts Report Reply

  • Rosemary McDonald, in reply to TracyMac,

    I loathe Key, but I think this buffoon anywhere near political power will be worse. In a different way, of course.

    It amazes me how people who rightly point out that running a company isn’t like running the nation seem to be giving this circus any credence. I was hoping that Laila would keep her hands firmly on the reins, but if the clown with the chequebook keeps trying to hog centre ring with his fan dances (thanks, Craig), the party’s attempts at gaining any political credibility will fail.

    Agree totally on all points....other than the last.

    Methinks perhaps that many will fall for the clown....if Laila and Hone did....what hope for the rest ?

    Waikato, or on the road • Since Apr 2014 • 1344 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz,

    Can anyone explain the hatred for Dotcom?

    Is it simply his conspicuous wealth (there've surely been others on the left of politics with personal fortunes?)

    Or his past convictions (all of which, I think, would by now by suppressed under clean slate provisions if committed in NZ)?

    Or that people support a team, and don't like other teams, even when their policies are pretty much congruent (I am yet to see a post by anyone on the left attacking an Internet Party policy on its merits).

    Or that people feel that the the US charges have merit, and that the actions of Dotcom's company amounted to *criminal* copyright infringement as opposed to (as many think) something which should be dealt with through a civil suit?

    Or that he's foreign. And fat.

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 5550 posts Report Reply

  • Chris Waugh, in reply to Rich of Observationz,

    Or that he’s foreign. And fat.

    And German. Everybody keeps mentioning his nationality for some reason.

    Wellington • Since Jan 2007 • 2401 posts Report Reply

  • Rosemary McDonald, in reply to Rich of Observationz,

    Can anyone explain the hatred for Dotcom?

    Now, where do I start.

    Its visceral. My gut roils at the sight and sound of both him and John Key.

    I find images of either kissing babies or kuia very disturbing.

    They both have equal lack of sincerity, a certain supercilliousness, an "I know heaps that YOU don't know" look in their eyes.

    Both use their wealth....and here's my working class roots showing...wealth not made by the sweat of their brows, to make the world a better place for them and their ilk.

    They both believe, with just cause I'm afraid to say, that they can actually buy peoples hearts, minds and souls.

    Because at some stage, they too were bought.

    P.S. I said German, because it conveniently allterates with Jolly and giant.

    No xenophobia intended. Herr Dotcom is as much a Kiwi as John Key.

    Waikato, or on the road • Since Apr 2014 • 1344 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic, in reply to Rosemary McDonald,

    To the Kiwiboil crowd, Dotcom comes across as a born-again champagne socialist with an axe to grind. Whereas they still admire Key as the social climber they're largely unlikely to become.

    But what happens when 'temporarily embarrassed millionaires' become permanently embarrassed ones? In an Indy Biz Weekly article many years ago, one of the more sensible things Chris Trotter wrote was of the ACT party appealing to the "thwarted social climber" who blames the reds/greens/pinks/rainbows/browns/blacks/yellows etc for holding them back. In America they were likely the working-class conservative 'silent majority'.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5430 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz, in reply to Rosemary McDonald,

    use their wealth....to make the world a better place for them and their ilk

    Can you point to any Internet Party policies that will help rich people get richer?

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 5550 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Rosemary McDonald,

    wealth not made by the sweat of their brows

    that's the future of work. the days of toiling down t'mine are well-past.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19719 posts Report Reply

  • Rosemary McDonald, in reply to Kumara Republic,

    Whereas they still admire Key as the social climber they’re largely unlikely to become.

    Sorry...I cannot for the life of me figure out exactly what is the basis for this man's popularity. He isn't intelligent or streetsmart. He has no sense of humour. He takes obseqiousness to new depths when in the company of the few he considers his betters.

    The polls say he has sex appeal. For whom, or what???

    He has no personality. At least we could all actively dislike Muldoon...

    And yet, for some bizzarre reason, he keeps topping the polls.

    On the other hand, in all our travels and all the chats we have had with strangers, we have only found one person who actually thinks Key has any worth.

    And even he had doubts about Key's humanity.

    Waikato, or on the road • Since Apr 2014 • 1344 posts Report Reply

  • Rosemary McDonald, in reply to Rich of Observationz,

    Can you point to any Internet Party policies that will help rich people get richer?

    No.

    Waikato, or on the road • Since Apr 2014 • 1344 posts Report Reply

  • Rich Lock, in reply to Kumara Republic,

    Is it me, or is the whole Anglosphere seemingly going down that path?

    It would be nice to be able to turn one's back and wish a pox on all their houses. Unfortunately, as the saying goes, just because you do not take an interest in politics doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you.

    back in the mother countr… • Since Feb 2007 • 2728 posts Report Reply

  • Rosemary McDonald, in reply to Sacha,

    that’s the future of work. the days of toiling down t’mine are well-past.

    Toiling down the mine...hopefully.

    Hard graft that leaves one sweaty and sore and calloused of hand?

    Not well- past by a LONG chalk.

    Who builds the house and digs the garden and and collects the rubbish and tends the livestock and cares for the sick and elderly and disabled?

    Who takes the boat out to sea and sets the longline and hauls it in? Cleans the fish?

    Who builds and repairs the roads and the power lines, who fixes your car and brings ultrafast broadband to your door?

    etc. etc.

    Can't see either of those twerps doing ANY of that stuff, day in day out.

    It would be beneath them.

    Waikato, or on the road • Since Apr 2014 • 1344 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to Sacha,

    that’s the future of work. the days of toiling down t’mine are well-past.

    Did you here the one about the Green Party talking about tax breaks for privet business development, on the same day the labor party says it want to save the animals?

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4414 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to Rosemary McDonald,

    Can’t see either of those twerps doing ANY of that stuff, day in day out.It would be beneath them.

    And is for many here. So I'm guessing to sum up your answers, you think he's undeservedly rich and just a bit fat?
    John Key Co. has already proven himself and I think you would probably be right on your analysis above. Dotcom has only proven that he's got a book people don't like, he's funded a Party of some well known people and has a mandate to get rid of that other guy you don't like. Hence him making sure the press keep that in the news If we didn't have people like him (remember he came from a poor background too) many of us wouldn't be able to build the houses, trawl the ocean (with its inherent problems) Personally the Fonterra farmers with their cows and land and shares seem up there in the same category as Money traders but that is a job I wouldn't do, either of them. I think Dotcom kind of displays he doesn't think that highly of money and he seems to share it around. Whether it be having some Art (any artist would appreciate a commission) whether it be having nannies and cleaners and builders on the property doing their respective jobs.I'd rather have him in that house than the Chrisco family who rip the poor off any day. I find the guy very determined to get rid of Key as is the mandate of Mana too. I find it all rather refreshing. So ...

    Or that he’s foreign. And fat.

    and rich I think is whats underneath the hooha.
    I often wonder why people don't complain about Sir Michael Fay and Richwhite. with their private island and all the money they sucked out of the taxpayer. At least Dotcom hasn't done that.

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • Rich Lock, in reply to Sofie Bribiesca,

    At least Dotcom hasn’t done that.

    No, but he’s very far from being the jolly larrikin pirate that some seem keen to paint him as, too – he got started via insider trading and embezzlement (he has convictions for both in Germany).

    If he’s so keen to splash his money around, perhaps he could pay some to the out-of-pocket investors in letsbuyit.com

    back in the mother countr… • Since Feb 2007 • 2728 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to Rich Lock,

    If he’s so keen to splash his money around, perhaps he could pay some to the out-of-pocket investors in letsbuyit.com

    I'm sure the out of pocket investors would understand that the dosh was needed for more pressing gestures, like this.
    Which, btw, took place after he'd been "radicalised" by his Mt Eden incarceration.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4593 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to Rich Lock,

    If he’s so keen to splash his money around, perhaps he could pay some to the out-of-pocket investors in letsbuyit.com

    Um, he got charged with embezzlement for investing in an almost bankrupt company and announcing he was going to put more in ,then didn't. So you think he should pay share holders who were in it to make money off their gamble? We don't even have laws or do gooders in NZ that would do that and there has been many many examples like it.
    I get that many people don't like him, his personality, his richness,fatness whatever. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I wouldn't try take it away from you., To then suggest he needs to be a saint when I havent seen anyone in Parliament that is , seems to me to be a little confusing. For everything that he is being picked on for , he seems to have been held to account (except he didn't credit Joe Wylie's art that we noticed) and he has now moved on to defending himself , getting rid of Key and financing a Party that is pro youth. I'm happy for Harre to take it to the people. Perhaps not being perfect, he knows how people feel so he knows other people are needed.

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to Sofie Bribiesca,

    For everything that he is being picked on for , he seems to have been held to account (except he didn’t credit Joe Wylie’s art that we noticed)

    Just before we let that one go, hopefully forever, I very much doubt that Dotcom was personally involved, despite it happening on his Twitter feed. When he confronted John Key with his impassioned and highly articulate invoking of NZ's anti-nuclear history, I was impressed. All of that went out the window, however, when I watched his godawful video featuring the expensive Obama impersonator. What a sorry piece of self-indulgence. Obviously I'd mistaken a calculating chutzpah for passion.

    I really don't get the down with the kids Dotcom schtick. Like his comsumption-masquerading-as-creativity "music" it seems awfully club-footed and condescending. Seriously, Pam Corkery dusted off from the frozen tombs and recycled as Harre's press secretary? The flaunted maharajah lifestyle has about as much to do with social justice as buying a lotto ticket. Sue Bradford understands this. Even if she never returns to public life she's already made a more significant contribution to making this country a better place than Dotcom ever will.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4593 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to Joe Wylie,

    I very much doubt that Dotcom was personally involved, despite it happening on his Twitter feed. When he confronted John Key with his impassioned and highly articulate invoking of NZ’s anti-nuclear history, I was impressed. All of that went out the window, however,

    Goodo.
    Who was it that hired Corkery? And Bradford, could her leaving have been similar to her leaving the Green Party? And even if ,Mana without Bradford and Internet have individual objectives with one thing only in common, that being to get rid of Key, I would think that was a pretty significant contribution to making NZ a better Country. I think it would have been great for Bradford to have stayed and had a voice amongst it all, Never mind it’s only me. :)
    Plus haven’t seen the Obama thing although I think I know that which you mention but Dotcom is very anti U.S of A. I cant imagine him showing Obama in a good light at all, and I have lost a bit of respect for Obama with the condoned use of drones which he isn’t entirely responsible for but he has achieved some good, Obama’s healthcare comes to mind, and the subsequent Supreme Court rulings on abortion recently shows exactly the field he moves in, so 2 steps forward 1 step back. I just don't know what Dotcom will do for NZ but I do know what John Key is doing and he is still popular Go figure. If I was to have a bet.... nothing could be worse than Key.

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes, in reply to Rich of Observationz,

    Can anyone explain the hatred for Dotcom?

    He doesn’t take money that seriously. Whether it belongs to the “rights holders” in many cases not actual artists, just middlemen and third party bludgers, sorry, respectable interests in the entertainment industry, or those that made fortunes out of getting the jump on Joe Public over the value of foreign currency from insid…. erm… I can't recall… I reject that comfortably… let the three of us shake on that eh?
    As such he is a threat, what if we all stopped believing in the power of the mighty dollar?.

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Sofie Bribiesca,

    nothing could be worse than Key

    Collins

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19719 posts Report Reply

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