Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Google Trending and MGMT

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  • robbery,

    I am happy to buy a non-DRM CD with (say) a clothing sponsorship on the sleeve.

    That's a tricky one sam.
    would you be happy to have your fav artists slip product references into their songs to offset the cost of the disc.

    shakin' a baby now, twisties and shout

    Here we are now
    let sony entertain us

    crippleware CD which mightn't even give me the sticker price's worth of enjoyment.

    agreed, that whole cripple the cd drive thing was insane but sometimes a cd is just a cd.
    But some times a cd is just a cd. if it wasn't copyable and did nothing but allow you to play the music that was on it then its doing its job.
    When you buy it its not a license to supply all your friends and people you don't even know with the content, it's a license for you to play it. I agree it should be a license for you to play it on any of the players you choose, but apparently that's proving difficult to apply without losing complete control over the distribution of the product as has happened.

    new zealand • Since May 2007 • 1882 posts Report Reply

  • Sam F,

    would you be happy to have your fav artists slip product references into their songs to offset the cost of the disc

    I don't have references ready to hand here at work, but haven't deals like this been done since even before the humble cassette tape, let alone the CD burner? For instance, 1950s and 1960s rockers getting kickbacks for referencing the latest muscle car in now-classic tunes? It isn't the nicest thing to be aware of, but I like to think I'd be smart enough to spot the difference between a crap song and a good one regardless.

    I listen to a lot of hip-hop (from where I get the clothing label endorsement example), but haven't so far maxed out a credit card on rims, expensive liquor, watches or big ol' sunglasses. To be honest, if something's mentioned in a song I like, and I then go out, find I genuinely like the product and buy it, how much does it matter in the end if the artist was paid to mention it or not?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1611 posts Report Reply

  • robbery,

    how much does it matter in the end if the artist was paid to mention it or not?

    and that's the artist ethics question.
    depends what you want from your music I guess. I want honest communication in pleasing ways, free from interference. I resent the invasion into my life by people who just want my money, hence installing ad blocker etc.
    If I thought the ads were in general useful to me then I'm sure I'd willingly seek them out, but to me most of it just clutters and distracts.

    Googles stated aim of making advertising relevant to the viewer is probably a step in the right direction though. I don't mind being informed about what is relevant to me, but how often is an ad there to merely inform you, it wants a sale, now.

    new zealand • Since May 2007 • 1882 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    I listen to a lot of hip-hop (from where I get the clothing label endorsement example), but haven't so far maxed out a credit card on rims, expensive liquor, watches or big ol' sunglasses.

    Off topic, but The Daily Show last night showed a video off John McCain's web site talking about his campaign bus. The guy hosting it seriously boasted about the 22 inch rims that the bus had. Sometimes great comedy just gets thrown at you as a TV show host.

    Whatever the opposite of 'hip and fly' is, that video is it.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6243 posts Report Reply

  • robbery,

    but haven't deals like this been done since even before the humble cassette tape, let alone the CD

    and been frowned upon since it was first tried. its no cooler now than it ever was. I don't want an artist compromising their art for dollars, ever. I know it happens, but I don't want to listen to the results.

    new zealand • Since May 2007 • 1882 posts Report Reply

  • Sam F,

    and been frowned upon since it was first tried. its no cooler now than it ever was. I don't want an artist compromising their art for dollars, ever. I know it happens, but I don't want to listen to the results.

    I'm not a fan of the approach either, and a really blatant and tasteless endorsement will turn me off, but if I like the song regardless, then I can live with it. If the artist is later quizzed and admits that they don't really like the product or use it, then that's an ethics question for them as an artist - but if the song is still decent...

    I don't demand "honesty" from music any more than I do from films - it's priceless when it happens, for sure, but are you really going to get to the core of another human being through music on a regular basis? Doubt it.

    Googles stated aim of making advertising relevant to the viewer is probably a step in the right direction though. I don't mind being informed about what is relevant to me, but how often is an ad there to merely inform you, it wants a sale, now.

    It's a tangent, I know, but I fail to see the difference here. It's targeted advertising, just as much as sneaker ads on a rap CD sleeve now, or talk of big ol' Chevrolets in a sixties surf-rock track aimed at 18-year-old Californians who just got their license. Surely Google tries to offer "what is relevant to you" because this increases its chance of the advertiser getting a quick impulse sale from the advertisement?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1611 posts Report Reply

  • robbery,

    I don't demand "honesty" from music any more than I do from films

    I do.

    new zealand • Since May 2007 • 1882 posts Report Reply

  • samuel walker,

    I don't want an artist compromising their art for dollars, ever.

    devils advocate hat; and cynic sneakers on for a moment:

    How many compromises have been made under the ownership of major labels? by 'artists' who actualy really just want to be be rich or a celebrity or both? or bonifide talented and passionate artists who were seduced by the lure of the same?

    Now that the Labels have less power and money are those compromises happening less? Maybe this filler/chaff that we disagree on has simply just changed. instead of just being overproduced and hyped pop it is also now more underproduced uninventive genre copies?

    Are many artists compromising their art by participating in the production of the inevitably cheesy promo video? by releasing a music statement that is confined in length by the recording medium of the time? by recording a certain number of songs that are catchy radio friendly to help lure in fans who will hopefully find richer content within the album?

    Or have these same constraints actually helped drive the artists? much of the great art of almost any medium is produced under structure rules. some of the finest novelists struggle until they let the confines of stucture and flow influence and inspire the work. And do some artists who would otherwise burn out stay fresh due to the renewed inspiration of a new producer or technique?

    there are a million different flavours there beyond mere product placement in songs......

    Since Nov 2006 • 203 posts Report Reply

  • Simon Grigg,

    I think the market theoretically was much wider. There wasn't much else to be into except sport and music,

    except now you can sell it to the world. 6 billion sets of ears over 3 million works for me anytime.

    And all it takes is a website and a bit of creative marketing.

    That coupled with the vastly increased return percentage on any sales in 2008 over our only outlets in the eighties, the local record shop, plus a viable rights agency system and a raft of other income streams that simply didn't exist then, reduced recording costs, and an independent label is a lot easier now than then.

    Just another klong... • Since Nov 2006 • 3284 posts Report Reply

  • robbery,

    Are many artists compromising their art by participating in the production of the inevitably cheesy promo video?

    absolutely. music videos have worn a bit thin really. there are still good slants on it but as an art form was a music video every really the music artists art. it was more often the film makers art with the bands music as sound track to it. no that there's anything wrong with that.
    great way for film and video artists to cut their teeth or stretch their muscle, but a situation where people make videos cos its an easy way to promote can only lead to a watering down of the artform,

    in an ideal world a video for a song should be made cos it creates something that compliments or enhances, or even stands alone.
    its not like that of course,

    new zealand • Since May 2007 • 1882 posts Report Reply

  • robbery,

    Or have these same constraints actually helped drive the artists? much of the great art of almost any medium is produced under structure rules. some of the finest novelists struggle until they let the confines of stucture and flow influence and inspire the work. And do some artists who would otherwise burn out stay fresh due to the renewed inspiration of a new producer or technique?

    there are a million different flavours there beyond mere product placement in songs......

    That's beautiful man, hang on a second, ....I think I got something in my eye, sniff, sniff. might have something to do with having the enright house - remember the stillnes playing in the background though.

    much better without the bold and italics of this mornings effort. well done!!! A plus plus.
    Samuel walker for the next martin luther king,

    I have a dream


    and in response,
    don't know, those last 2 paragraphs were a little deep for a thursday afternoon,

    new zealand • Since May 2007 • 1882 posts Report Reply

  • robbery,

    except now you can sell it to the world. 6 billion sets of ears over 3 million works for me anytime.

    true that, that other market was always there though, contactable through reviews in foreign mags and mail order. That's how I bought my rare discs. sent away for them.

    And all it takes is a website and a bit of creative marketing.

    you say that last bit (creative marketing) like its easy :)

    new zealand • Since May 2007 • 1882 posts Report Reply

  • Simon Grigg,

    you say that last bit (creative marketing) like its easy :)

    of course not but I'd rather have a website than a review in the NME (global circulation circa 1982 of about 40,000).

    We had a review in Trouser Press, one of the most influential US mags of the time (or was it Bomp...I can't recall...but just as influential) of The Screaming Meemees album that raved. The same mag named it one of the best albums of 1982.

    It sold us about 6 copies by mail order.

    I wonder what a good review on Pitchforkmedia sells?

    Just another klong... • Since Nov 2006 • 3284 posts Report Reply

  • Simon Grigg,

    That's how I bought my rare discs. sent away for them.

    And now you have emusic, itunes, Beatport, Juno and 1000 other retail sites. I would have killed to have been able to click and buy those Small Wonder 7''s you mentioned earlier.

    Then again I'd not have those boxes of dusty singles tucked away 25 years later would I?

    Just another klong... • Since Nov 2006 • 3284 posts Report Reply

  • robbery,

    Small Wonder 7''s you mentioned earlier.

    they acted as a distributor for a lot of indie labels at the time. not just their own releases. I used to get a nice 8 pg catalogue with every order.
    I'm much rather have a solid copy too, i'm not into the download thing much at all. but then what to do with a life time of collected records and discs. pretty hard to travel with that lot unless you've got a nice mum who lets you store em at her house.

    definitely internet sales have increased overseas purchases but not exponentially, and funnily enough the people that are mostly buying them are ex pat kiwis searching the net for slices of their home country.

    new zealand • Since May 2007 • 1882 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    I wonder what a good review on Pitchforkmedia sells?

    You take that and multiply it by the free Pitchfork sampler on Emusic ...

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22850 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    pretty hard to travel with that lot unless you've got a nice mum who lets you store em at her house.

    My problem with physical media is that the disc ends up on the pile/shelf and you lose touch with it. I can fit most of what I might ever want to hear on the 80GB iPod Classic I bought for $328.

    OTOH, need to sort out that vinyl->digital thing ...

    That's how I bought my rare discs. sent away for them.

    And there was certainly something special about that. And even knowing when your hip record store was going to get that special shipment in, and grabbing what you could afford. A lot of that vinyl was lovely to behold.

    But the main thing is the music.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22850 posts Report Reply

  • robbery,

    I wonder what a good review on Pitchforkmedia sells

    disturbingly few for some.

    new zealand • Since May 2007 • 1882 posts Report Reply

  • robbery,

    You take that and multiply it by the free Pitchfork sampler on Emusic ...

    What were the figures on the PA /Amplifier comps? those 2 you did.

    I've found download sales to me fairly disappointing. for my 40 albums it was a mere couple of hundred dollars over 2 and a half years.
    I guess we're not quite at 'digital downloads wipes out real world sales' just yet, maybe its different for different genres.

    new zealand • Since May 2007 • 1882 posts Report Reply

  • Simon Grigg,

    But the main thing is the music.

    Yep but a Miles Davis LP under yer arm has a much higher hip value than an MP3 of the same thing.

    And what I wouldn't do to get my hands on the Murray Cammick soul collection. Nothing to do with the music (I have much of that) I just want the rekkids!

    Just another klong... • Since Nov 2006 • 3284 posts Report Reply

  • Simon Grigg,

    I guess we're not quite at 'digital downloads wipes out real world sales' just yet, maybe its different for different genres.

    Nah it's still only 10-20% on average but on things like pop / R'n'B etc its way higher. That said my 13 year old just asked for CD copies of the things she'd bought from iTunes.

    Here in Indo a legit album is only about $6 so it's not an issue (pirate copies are about $1)

    Just another klong... • Since Nov 2006 • 3284 posts Report Reply

  • samuel walker,

    OTOH, need to sort out that vinyl->digital thing ...

    apart from utilising the rather excellent Phillips cdr component CD player;, which just sits in a stack under one deck [the only drawback being that It is going to PC VIA CD [one extra step], which is also a benefit as it is a goooooooood quality CD and handy for teh car...]. I have found the quickest and still high quality option to be the iriver T30MT, which has line in, multi codec support and a pretty good basic equaliser. Its as fast and easy as anything else i have seen. and better quality too.

    <thanks to cian at conch for the tip on it>

    Since Nov 2006 • 203 posts Report Reply

  • Simon Grigg,

    apart from utilising the rather excellent Phillips cdr component CD

    yep, they are the bomb. I had one for close to a decade (from back when blank CDs were $10 each) until it gave up the ghost last year.

    Just another klong... • Since Nov 2006 • 3284 posts Report Reply

  • Nick D'Angelo,

    Since it's Friday afternoon I'd thought I'd just throw this in:

    Russell I love your PAS website (yours too Mr Grigg), and I appreciate the effort you put in to it, but by crikey doesn't it knock your efforts for six when this guy gets 10 million hits!

    Simon Laan • Since May 2008 • 162 posts Report Reply

  • robbery,

    doesn't it knock your efforts for six

    What also might knock someone for six is how you even know about this guy?

    new zealand • Since May 2007 • 1882 posts Report Reply

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