Hard News: Last Words
203 Responses
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tussock, in reply to
I would like to vote against National if I may.
Technically, any vote for a party that crosses the threshold or wins an electorate other than them is a vote against National. They want 61+ MPs, and every other list MP elected before their 61st works against them.
Edit: Oh, and Green, the local Sue Coutts so she gets the refund (very safe National seat), Keep MMP, and STV.
Be nice if the MMP review can get us PV or STV seats, no threshold (well, first divisor 1.4 I suppose) and maybe even a few less list MPs. But that's later.
Two ticks entrenched? So the nats push through SM. Bah.
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martinb, in reply to
I agree with you on the broadcasting policy- but respectfully disagree about the GST off fruit and veges. We are feeling the full force of the fast food advertising dollar. Any step in the right direction will help. Here's I/S view on NoRightTurn.
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Craig Ranapia, in reply to
Correct. If a party does not represent me, then they do not earn, let alone own my vote.
The “left” is not Labour’s bitch. The “right” is not National’s bitch. The center don’t have to take big party cock from either end – it can be as electorally slutty as it pleases.
Not rocket science, people.
Now, can we stick a fucking fork in FPP-style “born to rule” prickery because it’s not only done, it’s maggoty and beginning to reek.
Have a good one tomorrow, folks. But if the outcome isn't to your liking, at least try to pay due respect to the free, fair and credible general election that's going to happen tomorrow. Especially if you don't like the outcome.
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martinb, in reply to
Yeh- I voted Green in 1999. I haven't since as I thought they should have been promoting the core green message of how beneficial being genuine not token with our environmentalism could be. Rather than a little bit of marijuana,anti- chicken hormones, anti-American imperialism etc and hooshed together, though each may have its merits.
Now they are trying to mainstream Green politics I can't bring myself to trust Russell Norman. There was something saint-like about Donald and Fitzsimmons. I'm not yet convinced by the current crop there.
Appearing on this thread is also the slight hint of tactical voting for Winston. Considering this. It is not a nice thought, but which other party can concievably have a real shot at preventing asset sales?
Also 4 % of the non-Nat vote would be a lot to waste. I think the opposition will be stronger with Winston in it. There are some National cabinet ministers who really need an introduction to some firebrand opposition politics. The man can answer a question, even if he doesn't have an answer written out for him by Steve Joyce. but not sure that I'll be able to vote for him on the day.
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I think Labour, being a broad organisation has some people that don't realise they have to earn every vote, and a lot of sincere capable hard working people who do.
I think also that a Norman/Turei Greens party is a much easier sell to be a partner in government for the right of the Labour party than Tanzcos/Locke/Bradford etc.
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Rich of Observationz, in reply to
Polling here. FPP is ahead, the polls differ on the tailender. SM or PV, anyway - toss a coin for which..
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Islander, in reply to
+1 - and thanks Craig-
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JacksonP, in reply to
Polling here. FPP is ahead, the polls differ on the tailender. SM or PV, anyway – toss a coin for which..
You gave me a fright. You mean it's ahead if the referendum is for change. Which at the moment seems unlikely. Keep MMP 54.4%. Change 35%, 10% Undecided.
It made more sense after I read David's comment earlier of course.
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Oh god, I CAN"T DECIDE between Greens and Labour for my party vote. I just can't. If I want to see someone on the Labour List get into parliament (I think he's 33 or something), I have to vote Labour, don't I? Don't I?
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Given how many seem to be interested in voting Green, the Campbell Live story introducing their list members might be helpful. Embedded clip not loading properly for me right now so I can't tell you how long it is.
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Sacha, in reply to
Someone might be able to clarify the latest numbers, but a whole lot more people than you will have to vote Labour before some talented members of their lower list get a look in.
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Sacha, in reply to
A vote against Labour is as good as a vote for National
you are aware we're no longer using FPP, right.
more than two options. -
Sacha, in reply to
which other party can concievably have a real shot at preventing asset sales?
Te Greens, in short.
I haven't paid enough attention to the Maori Party's pronouncements but it sounds like they may support sales in exchange for some iwi preference.
And from his track record I wouldnt trust Winnie as far as I could spit. Despite what seems like a strong core belief against sales who's to say he wouldn't be bought off with foreign restrictions and an offer of being Treasurer with limo and other ego-stroking baubles?
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JLM, in reply to
Edit: Oh, and Green, the local Sue Coutts so she gets the refund (very safe National seat), Keep MMP, and STV.
Thank you Tussock. I wonder how much of an extra sympathy vote Sue gets because of that shafting QLDC gave to Wanaka Wastebusters.
Even more votes I suspect because she has been an energetic and appealing candidate. Hope it translates to party votes.
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JLM, in reply to
I have to vote Labour, don’t I? Don’t I?
I think you can do it with pride after the policy in that campaign. Much as I would like to see James Shaw, David Hay and Rick Leckinger become MPs, I don't think it matters too much ultimately how the votes and seats on the left are arranged. So just vote for who you want to - you don't even have to tell.
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Hebe, in reply to
Not at all, if you want your vote to be a protest vote against National not Labour. I would vote for a stinking pile of poo if it would get rid of National, they are Cuthullull's little helpers.
Voting for a "minor" party is not a protest vote period. My interactions with Labour people in general election mode has always given me the impression that most (not all) Labourites regard MMP as an aberration that will eventually go away, and they only go along with it as much as they must until FPP is restored. Which is why the Greens may well within a term or two be the second-largest party in Parliament.
And why do I have to be left to be Green anyway?
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Isaac Freeman, in reply to
A vote against Labour is as good as a vote for National and these people are dangerous.
This is the part I think is a mistake. There's no box on the ballot paper for "against Labour". Neither are there sections for "Left and "Right". Each party has its own values, policies and culture.
I voted for the Greens because their values, policies and culture better matched what I want from New Zealand than any other party. I'd like them to do whatever works to advance their values, policies and culture. Despite the history, I think they'd get further working with Labour than National, but if that's not an option I'd rather they work with National to get something small achieved than sit on their hands for three years.
As far as I can tell, Maori Party voters feel the same way, as do New Zealand First voters, United voters and Conservative voters. Back in the days when ACT had discernible values and policies, I'm sure they were the same. I don't know enough about Mana yet, but if they're serious about getting things done they'll also work with whoever can advance their causes in whatever political environment they find themselves in.
Thankfully, Labour is capable of recognising this reality in practice. I find Winston Peters' politics odious, but I'm glad Helen Clark was able to form a government with NZ First, because I preferred that outcome to having Don Brash as Prime Minister.
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Hebe, in reply to
+1 Well put Isaac Freeman.
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Isaac Freeman, in reply to
I think Labour, being a broad organisation has some people that don’t realise they have to earn every vote, and a lot of sincere capable hard working people who do.
Yes, quite right. There are some great, sensible and sincere people in the Labour Party. I'm heartened when their voices are heard.
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izogi, in reply to
Instead, a badly flawed process may well see Carmel Sepuloni – one of a handful of MPs picked out as the face of the party for the opening broadcast – out of Parliament because her list place isn’t high enough. Others behind her, like Jordan Carter and Kate Sutton, have no show.
If it's acknowledged as a mistake within the party, I've wondered if we might still see a stack of senior Labour resignations within the first year after the election. Labour messed it up back during that phase before it pulled itself together somewhat, but it's still not necessarily too late to let in some of the newer talent. It may create some irritating by-elections.
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My vote for the greens is not a vote against Labour, nor is an explicit vote for the Greens - like last time it's a vote to pull the general Left further left than Labour
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Closing addresses on radio in background. Can't be arsed with any more of it at this stage (and I *like* politics).
Russel Norman just said unequivocally that a vote for his party means opposing asset sales. Sensible stuff from a few senior Labour MPs before that. And I survived interminable smugness and bursts of the Feelers to get that far..
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Rich of Observationz, in reply to
I'm thinking that a lot of the list positions are reward for supporting Goff. If another one of the old guard gets in as leader (or they wierdly decide to stick with Goff) then the same thing will be perpetuated.
The only hope for them is to break the cycle and get a leader that actually cares about more than maintaining their position.
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Kracklite, in reply to
+2
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thegirlstefan, in reply to
the TV One order seems different- Labour then Nats so far
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