Hard News: Loving your dog and owning your words
185 Responses
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Kyle: the market at Waitangi park currently features:
- dim sum
- artisan sausage inna bun
- various baked goodsNo bacon butties I'm afraid. Still, given that every stall holder has a large knife, I'd keep accusations of pansy to myself.
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Robyn (or anyone else who knows), how exactly is a civil union different to marriage, other than the latter being only for heterosexual couples?
Civil Unions aren't recognised overseas as marriage (and overseas ones here I think), in some parts of the world a NZ civil union isn't recognised as anything. I don't think they have the same powers in adoption laws, and.... something else.
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Still, given that every stall holder has a large knife, I'd keep accusations of pansy to myself.
It was the fruit and veg and home made jam that led me to make the pansy comment.
But if there's baked goods, and they're home baked by little old ladies, and they also sell golliwogs, well then I concede and withdraw fully good sir. Never cross a little old lady with her baking, or you won't get none.
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artisan sausage inna bun
I just want it made absolutely clear that no artisans were minced in the making of these sausages.
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I wonder what the American taxpayers are going to get in return for this proposed "bailout".
A financial system that is still capable of giving them mortgages, 401K, capital for businesses to grow and provide jobs, that sort of thing.
I'm also a bit bemused by the distinction between taxpayers and companies/banks/investors, as if those are not taxpayers and operate is some separate universe completely isolated from the rest of the populace.
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in some parts of the world a NZ civil union isn't recognised as anything
In Italy they enjoy exactly the same recognition as Italian civil unions. Which is to say, none at all.
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And that strikes me as wrong. Not exactly the most pressing issue in the world, granted; but something I'd like some straight answers to if anyone bother asking a straight question.
Craig, the Green position is that marriage should be allowed for non-straight couples. We supported the CUB because it was a step in the right direction.
IMO, the only way to get to full marriage rights for all was to have CU for long enough for the bigots to detect that the sky hasn't fallen in. No idea how long that will be, but if the Homosexual Law Reform Bill is any guide, it'll be around a generation before the status quo is institutionalised, and we can be successfully the envelope again. But who knows, maybe sooner ?
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No idea how long that will be, but if the Homosexual Law Reform Bill is any guide, it'll be around a generation before the status quo is institutionalised, and we can be successfully the envelope again. But who knows, maybe sooner ?
I think it might be sooner. When Tim Barnett and his partner got civilly unioned, the media referred to it as 'getting married' several times.
We supported the CUB because it was a step in the right direction
Ditto. It's not good enough, but it's a feck of a lot better than it was. Like Craig though, I would like to see people being honest about their position, and whether they're prepared to publicly support full gay marriage.
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I would like people to be civilly united. Not only do I find it stylistically nicer, it gives me pleasant images of elaborate courtesy.
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In Italy they enjoy exactly the same recognition as Italian civil unions. Which is to say, none at all.
But is an Italian civil union the same as a NZ one? (Say for a heterosexual couple.) Can you get married in Italy without having any religious ceremony? If you have a religious ceremony do you still have to sign something official (from the state)?
If NZ civil unions aren't recognised in other countries, what's the status of a person currently in a legal NZ civil union who then enters into a marriage in another country? (i.e. if civil unions aren't legal there then I assume there is no reason why a 'marriage' can't take place.) Is that marriage recognised within NZ if the couple returns here without the prior civil union being dissolved? Can a person legally simultaneously enter into a civil union with one person and marriage with another in NZ? How do bigamy laws work with regard to c.u.s and marriages? OMG, what is marriage anyway???
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But is an Italian civil union the same as a NZ one? (Say for a heterosexual couple.) Can you get married in Italy without having any religious ceremony? If you have a religious ceremony do you still have to sign something official (from the state)?
Sorry, I was in fact making a bad joke. We don't have civil unions in Italy, for the simple fact that as a country we've decided that the civil rights movement was a mistake, feminism was a mistake, hell, the Renaissance was probably a mistake too, so we're trying to pedal back into the Middle Ages as fast as possible. And our only moral authority is the Pope, and the Pope doesn't believe in the gays, although you should check out his shoes and especially his secretary (Cary Grant? Are you sure, Your Holiness?), and he's reintroducing the mass in Latin with the priest not facing the congregation, perhaps in homage to the late Miles Davis. It's a mess, I tell you.
But we do have civil marriages, until they take those away. As far as signing a state document when you get married in church, I honestly don't know the answer to that.
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Sorry, I was in fact making a bad joke. We don't have civil unions in Italy
I'm stupid!
But it was a good joke, I liked it.
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and he's reintroducing the mass in Latin with the priest not facing the congregation, perhaps in homage to the late Miles Davis.
Fantastic Giovanni, pure gold.
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WH,
The crisis seems to have given Chase Me Ladies a new lease on life.
A financial system that is still capable of giving them mortgages, 401K, capital for businesses to grow and provide jobs, that sort of thing.
I understand that is the goal of the bailout, Jarno. I'm asking about the value of the assets the US Government will receive in exchange for its funds. It is a question of how the bailout might be structured so as to maximise public benefit.
I'm also a bit bemused by the distinction between taxpayers and companies/banks/investors
I really do think that the public/private distinction is a straightforward one in this context.
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The crisis seems to have given Chase Me Ladies a new lease on life.
Heh - priceless. He's added to my RSS feed.
Since the credit crisis started I have been cramming my face with cheeseburgers. Now that I weigh 300lb the Federal Reserve will consider me Too Big To Fail.
Once again I have outwitted them.
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Heh - priceless. He's added to my RSS feed.
"That which doesn't kill you almost kills you" - I love this guy.
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I'm asking about the value of the assets the US Government will receive in exchange for its funds.
well, if they pay US$700 billion for the assets (sic), of course the assets will be worth $700 billion. Boom boom! Would you like fries with that, sir? The assets (sic) are worth whatever the market is willing to pay. In this case, the "market" is the US govt. Now, if the US govt. then offers these purchased assets (sic) to the market at a later stage, well, let's just say there is some downside risk involved.
A financial system that is still capable of giving them mortgages, 401K, capital for businesses to grow and provide jobs, that sort of thing.
"give us all your cash and valuables, or we torch the place"
charming!
(i especially like the idea of having a financial system (sic) still capable of "giving" mortgages. Boom boom!
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IMO, the only way to get to full marriage rights for all was to have CU for long enough for the bigots to detect that the sky hasn't fallen in.
First, thanks for the response Mikaere. I may often think the Greens are couple of GM kumara short of a full hangi, but you're never going to die waiting to find out what they really think.
I just think that your statement the only way to get to full marriage rights for all was to have CU for long enough for the bigots to detect that the sky hasn't fallen in is, at best a wee bit naive. Here's the reality check: Brian The Bish is now, has always been, and always will be a moral Chicken Little. You're never going to change that, and wouldn't waste my time trying.
I've been told quite bluntly (and, sadly, off the record) by some MPs who voted for the CUB that, as far as they're concerned, marriage equality is off the books.
And being blunt for a moment, you and I have "a generation" to wait. My partner (who is sixty-four next birthday) probably doesn't. I know there are some people who'd rather forget this, but Fran Wilde was under huge pressure to withdraw the Homosexual Law Reform Bill by people convinced that "the bigots" would hand the '87 election to the Nats. I'm profoundly thankful that she had the moral courage not to throw gay men under the bus for the short-term political interests (and advice that turned out to be wrong, BTW) of her party.
Sometimes, Mikaere, the hoi polloi deserve a little more credit than they get. I've certainly found, in my own coming out process, that people I've assumed would be complete shitbags were anything but, and vice versa. A pretty in your face reality check of my own stereotypes and assumptions about others.
And I certainly believe that no civil rights battle can be won when you're too chicken shit to even start to fight without a green light from pollsters and a focus group.
To quote Amy Pohler's Hillary Clinton, either grow a pair or borrow mine. And I'd sure like to know how many I need to grow. :)
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WH
You bastard but I mean it lovingly.
I'm currently stuffed up with bronchitis and Chase me Ladies has cheered me up and nearly killed me at the same time. Laughing until the coughing causes a seizure.
My favourite so far is the one about travelling on British Airways.
Don't forget to take some cigarette butts in your hand luggage. Leave them lying around the plane, it really pisses them off. They can’t work out why their nerdish smoke detectors aren’t working.... One day I’m going to sneak on board with a jar of bees. Hopefully they'll swarm up to Business Class and sting everyone to buggery. It will be the last thing they're expecting.
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I've been told quite bluntly (and, sadly, off the record) by some MPs who voted for the CUB that, as far as they're concerned, marriage equality is off the books.
Did they say why? Is it fear of a bigoted backlash, or is there a sense that it's not the kind of battle that enough people would organise around? I ask because that's the debate back home, whether to aim for marriage equality or gun for the civil unions, knowing that the latter are not necessarily a step towards the former.
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And I certainly believe that no civil rights battle can be won when you're too chicken shit to even start to fight without a green light from pollsters and a focus group.
I really hope you're not still talking about Grant here Craig. Grant's been fighting battles for a long time, and having discussed the matter with him briefly, he's in to win them in the long term. And certainly not chicken shit.
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I really hope you're not still talking about Grant here Craig.
Well, I don't know whether I should or not -- might be a useful question for an intrepid PAS Welligtonista to ask at the next cottage meeting, don't you think? Just remember to have the recording device clearly visible, folks.
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Is it fear of a bigoted backlash, or is there a sense that it's not the kind of battle that enough people would organise around?
I haven't had private comment on this particular issue, but very often I get people telling me they would support something if a campaign did the hard work of building support for it...
As for how long? I say it won't be that many years at all before homosexuals have the same rights under the law as anyone else, but every year that isn't the case is a shameful one.
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Well, I don't know whether I should or not -- might be a useful question for an intrepid PAS Welligtonista to ask at the next cottage meeting, don't you think? Just remember to have the recording device clearly visible, folks.
Craig, you appear to be suggesting Grant's responsible for Franks situation, you must know he's not? You also seem to be suggesting he's vague on CU, he's not.
Do you object to the use of cameras etc at cottage meetings, I think I probably do and the questioning of Kedgely was stupid (though I'm no fan of hers at all). But all that aside, Franks is the twit at the centre of this piece and Grant's not.
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Re: Civil Unions going unrecognized overseas ... Canada has no concept of civil unions. There is just marriage - same sex or opposite sex, take your pick.
I found this info on their immigration site:
A marriage between two persons of the same sex will be recognized, for immigration purposes, where the marriage:
· was legally performed in Canada; or
· if performed outside of Canada, the marriage must be legally recognized according to both the law of the place where the marriage occurred and under Canadian law. This applies to same sex marriages performed in the following jurisdictions:• Belgium
• the Netherlands
• South Africa
• Spain
• the State of Massachusetts (U.S.A.).A same sex couple civilly united in New Zealand could still apply as a de facto couple though.
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