Hard News: Lucinda Williams made me cry
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I think the point is that gigs should provide for the entirely predictable needs of their diverse audiences - some of whom will want to sit with an uninterrupted view while others wish a bit o getting down. Not that hard to keep both sets of people happy, surely?
Sacha...
I would like to think so... but sadly no, it appears not. In venues with a huge danceable flat floor like the Vector Arena, people do not seem to be able to work that one out!
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I'm not entirely sure how I suddenly became the poster-boy for Hatred of the Disabled here? It's rather offensive though and to claim I am in anyway advocating ANYTHING to do with disability has really pissed me off.
Roger I presume you are not 100% able bodied? Perhaps in a wheelchair (and again, no offense here, just looking for context). I absolutely understand you desiring a seat where you can get a decent view of a concert you've paid for - my point re James Brown was merely that it seemed fair that for a 70 y/o man specifically having made "music to dance to" trying to get everyone dancing for one song seemed an enjoyable and fair thing to do. And nobody, even the by-all-accounts-rather-nasty Mr Brown, was attempting to cause any kind of disquiet amongst the less able-bodied.
Grrrrr.
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I absolutely understand you desiring a seat where you can get a decent view of a concert you've paid for
Think of the shorties, people. Any flat-floored show means that I almost *never* get a decent view of a concert I've paid for. At The Kills I spent the first ten songs listening to the band without ever catching a glimpse of them in the flesh. The number of six foot tall dudes ahead of me, stretching to the stage in a long impregnable line, was absolutely uncanny. If I were a tinfoil-hat-wearer I would have been calling for an investigation of the conspiracy.
(Um, I babble when things get tense, in case anyone was wondering.)
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Gareth, no such implications on my part. I don't see dancing on the inside as being about disability in particular. However:
Clearly, when you need to dance, there are some awesome things you can do with a wheelchair.
Quite.
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I babble when things get tense
Not that easy in a library, surely. :)
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Grrrrr.
Well it is a wet Monday, and this board has been being far too quiet and conciliatory
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Who you calling conciliatory! Want to make something of it?
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Not that easy in a library, surely. :)
Once, I was shushed by a library patron. :)
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I came to a compromise at the last concert I attended. Rather than dancing in my seat, I moved to the aisle and then sat down there instead.
Of course, this was at The Wiggles. Who - and I'd like this to go on the record here - were EXCELLENT.
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Lucinda was indeed in fine voice. Loved it - even from the back of the circle , where I couldn't see her face even with my specs on! Chair dancing & foot tapping galore
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Think of the shorties, people.
I should add, as a humungously tall person, I feel uncomfortable standing with people behind me at concerts and whatnot, and always try to stand at the back or side so that I'm not blocking someone's view.
It's a terrible clash with my girlfriend, who is rather short and so naturally pushes her way to the front so she can see.
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Will none of you think of the children?
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Rik,
I forgot to mention in my first post there was this dude at the concert who was arguing with the usher over his seats - his ticket said row C so why was he 5 rows from the front and she tried to explain that there was an AA and BB row and the A-B-C, etc but he still was not happy, So anyway, he finally sits down in one of the two spare row C seats next to me and as the concert got underway I got my mate who was about 5 rows back (due to a ticketing communication breakdown) to come up and take the spare seat and this guy leans over and waves two tickets under my nose and angrily grunts "I OWN that seat!" and as we just couldn't be bothered pointing out that while he may own a ticket for that seat the fact that he was there on his own shouldn't really stop someone else from sitting there my mate dropped back to his seat. This guy then alternated between calling for blood any time anyone got up to dance in the middle aisle and getting up there himself. What a tw*t.
I also forgot to mention the short older-lady usher that kept attempting to get people dancing (swaying?) up the front to move along - she had balls, that's for sure.
In the old days concerts were like a Darwin-esque survival of the fittest expidition, the tickets were one price and those with the desire/strength made it to the front and everyone found their place in the melee. These days you get fat old gits (I could variously fit into this category) with the money to buy expensive tickets sitting at the front which surely has to take some of the excitement that a band would feed off away from the equation thereby lessening everyones experience? I guess you can't have it both ways - I like the fact that I can buy my way to the front but I hate the fact that it is so boring up there nowadays.
In my world if you're at the front in a seat and the crowd stands up then you stand up with them. And if you are unable to stand up then you should buy a ticket in the stands/circle/whatever.
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Is it just me, or does Whaleoil's embarrassing "Trophy Page" resemble a certain other, icky genre emitted by lonely men? Sorry. Just sayin' …
LMFAO
Don't ask how I came across this
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In my world if you're at the front in a seat and the crowd stands up then you stand up with them. And if you are unable to stand up then you should buy a ticket in the stands/circle/whatever.
An ideal solution... why can't people in either area show that level of pragmatism?
Yes, I know, that WAS a retorical question.
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This guy then alternated between calling for blood any time anyone got up to dance in the middle aisle and getting up there himself. What a tw*t.
Gawd. No one who spends that much time being angry can actually appreciate a show like that.
I also forgot to mention the short older-lady usher that kept attempting to get people dancing (swaying?) up the front to move along - she had balls, that's for sure.
I thought she was kind of awesome. She was really short, as if she'd been singled out for the going up the front and telling-off job because she wouldn't block anyone's view while she did it.
In the old days concerts were like a Darwin-esque survival of the fittest expidition, the tickets were one price and those with the desire/strength made it to the front and everyone found their place in the melee.
When you've been to a lot of gigs you learn how crowds work, how to give way to people headed in or out, and when to close up so the traffic lane appears somewhere else.
These days you get fat old gits (I could variously fit into this category) with the money to buy expensive tickets sitting at the front which surely has to take some of the excitement that a band would feed off away from the equation thereby lessening everyones experience?
I think you've hit on an important point. Those "premium" seats right up the front are a great earner for the promoter, but they seriously mess with the natural dynamic of a rock show.
The way the last Rolling Stones show at Western Springs was sold was bloody scandalous. It was half-empty in the premium circle down in front, and grossly (and dangerously) oversold up on the hill.
Even then, we had to contend with some Christmas-in-the-Park fools who felt that because they'd laid camp up amongst the trees hours before, no one should be able to stand up in front of them. They shouldn't have been at a friggin' Stones show if they didn't want to dance.
In my world if you're at the front in a seat and the crowd stands up then you stand up with them. And if you are unable to stand up then you should buy a ticket in the stands/circle/whatever.
In a perfect world ...
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LMFAO
Don't ask how I came across thisI can't help but feel that a man more confident in his manliness would have to keep saying things like: "Yes it is real and yes that is blood."
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"Yes it is real and yes that is blood."
Heh. Probly means DPF and PC got stick-ons at about the same time.
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They shouldn't have been at a friggin' Stones show if they didn't want to dance.
Oh, so they are on the list then?
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Whaleoil's Trophy list? No, I don't think so.
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Oh, so they are on the list then?
To be fair, the Western Springs hill is so steep that anyone with mobility issues would never be on it anyway. (Which is a whole other problem, I suppose.)
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Point made, Roger. Give it away now before you get boring.
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At the risk of being boring myself, why does a desire to dance take precedence over a desire to watch from a seat?
The problem I find, and see on this thread, is that you either must not be into the music if you don't dance, (in which case why did you come to the gig, dumbarse?) or you are disabled and so can only dance on the inside (in which case you should buy the DVD and stay home, eh, Gareth?).
There are those of us who don't like dancing, you know, who are what some would call "rhythm-challenged, in a physical context", who nonetheless can and do enjoy a good show. I'm with Roger here, in that I pay for a seat, I'm entitled to sit there and see the show. It's not like it's a $10 door charge for the gig - when individual tickets hit 3 figures as a starting point, you feel some entitlement to get your money's worth.
I can understand for some that that implies some movement, but I fail to see why "They shouldn't have been at a friggin' Stones show if they didn't want to dance" is seen as justification for behaviour that impinges on other people's right of enjoyment.
Society would be a lot better if we stopped thinking of only our own enjoyment.
That said, promoters could think a little harder. When we were teens, you could write off the setting out of seating in the Wellington Town Hall for a Split Enz show as being "an older guy running the place who didn't understand Rock and Roll". These days, the organizers haven't started shaving yet so you'd think they might have a better idea (Maybe they thought Lucinda only appealed to an oldie audience).
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you are disabled and so can only dance on the inside (in which case you should buy the DVD and stay home, eh, Gareth?)
Sigh
=(
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The problem, Mark, is people going "either/or" instead of "and". That simple, really.
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