Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Moron y Moron

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  • Rob Hosking,

    Oh come on.

    For most of the 1990s, both Labour and Environment were held by National front benchers - Labour first by Birch until 1993, then later by Bradford under Shipley (can't remember who had it in between).

    Environment was held by Upton - again, a front bencher.

    It seems a bit desperate to argue they can't be promotions because National doesn't value them as highly as Labour.

    That said, I don't think he's been promoted. But I sure as hell don't think he's been demoted.

    South Roseneath • Since Nov 2006 • 830 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    For most of the 1990s, both Labour and Environment were held by National front benchers - Labour first by Birch until 1993, then later by Bradford under Shipley (can't remember who had it in between).

    Well as Margaret points out, it wasn't broadcasting that made Maharey number 4, in much the same way it wasn't tertiary education that made Cullen number 2, or Arts and Culture that made Clark number 1.

    Saying that a party is more 'into' a portfolio because the minister that happens to have it is highly ranked ignores the fact that ministers get more than one portfolio.

    Upton held four other portfolios. Bradford had energy, industry, tertiary education and defence. Birch was... finance wasn't he?

    Since Nov 2006 • 6243 posts Report Reply

  • Jeremy Andrew,

    __I will be contributing hippy humus and pita bread.__

    You'll be contributing organic dead leaves and dirt?

    I'm all for gardening, but I was hoping for some food...

    Luckily for Kowhai, hummus has multiple spellings from different dialects - humus, hommus, etc are all valid.
    Which I'm normally not (quite) pedantic enough to point out, except it reminds me of some priceless graffiti from Sydney:
    Scrawled on the wall "God hates homos" and added in another hand "But he loves taboulleh".

    Hamiltron - City of the F… • Since Nov 2006 • 900 posts Report Reply

  • Margaret B,

    Rob, I've moved on from National's view of the portfolios and am trying to point out that even if you look at how Labour has valued them in the recent past they were not highly valued in and of themselves (meaning, without the influence of other portfolios that the person held eg Maharey, Birch).

    Gotta love that graffiti Jeremy, thanks for putting a smile on my dial :-)

    Since Oct 2007 • 59 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    Birch was... finance wasn't he?

    If you believe certain people, Birch's primary job function was to keep Satan sweet, and dispose of the exsanguinated kitten corpses without anyone noticing.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • linger,

    To take up the definition of "mana": I'm broadly in agreement with Craig, though for slightly different reasons.

    The primary definition of "mana" is "respect owed".
    Of course, that immediately raises the question of how one gets respect -- answers to which are culturally specific and lead to a fair amount of disagreement (depending on whether we place higher priority on physical strength, intelligence, knowledge, charisma, social role fulfilled, or group represented -- all of which have varying contributions to make). But in fact we don't need to answer that question in order to measure "mana", because we can instead define or quantify "mana" operationally, as the probability that, when you ask someone to do something, they will actually do it (instead of e.g. suggesting you do something biologically impossible). And yes, that does mean that no-one can simply assert that they have mana; it resides instead in how others respond to them.

    Tokyo • Since Apr 2007 • 1887 posts Report Reply

  • Michael Fitzgerald,

    Mallard got promoted seems like Len Richards thought it was a good path to follow. My bet Party Prez.
    Who is Gill?

    http://www.tv3.co.nz/video/LabourPartydelegatehitsprotesterwithmegaphone/tabid/309/articleID/38389/Default.aspx?ArticleID=38389#video

    Since May 2007 • 631 posts Report Reply

  • Michael Fitzgerald,

    One law for all?

    Sandra Manderson graffitis Police station.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/thepress/4259561a6530.html

    I've never seen such a thing as offically santioned graffiti (maybe that red spikey sculpture on the AKL motorway).

    Since May 2007 • 631 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Mallard got promoted seems like Len Richards thought it was a good path to follow. My bet Party Prez.

    See my post in the other thread, Michael. Until last year, Richards was co-leader of the Alliance. He published a statement last week unequivocally condemning both the Ruatoki raids and the Terrorism Suppression Act. So he's not exactly the face of state terror.

    The hysterical nature of the protest no doubt raised the temperature. But Labour should still turf him out of the party.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22749 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford,

    I've never seen such a thing as offically santioned graffiti (maybe that red spikey sculpture on the AKL motorway).

    The red sticky thing north of spaghetti junction; it used to be yellow.
    Well it was apparently anonymously dumped there two or three decades ago.

    I like it.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4310 posts Report Reply

  • reece palmer,

    The way they looked to be on the news I doubt that crowd would have listened to Ghandi, but more importantly why did the police not react to his violent act as they did to the 17 year old that spat on one of their number. This guy will no doubt deny deny deny the undeniable until it goes away. The labour party should definitely expel him but I doubt they will. The police should prosecute but I doubt they will. Certainly can't cite lack of evidence or witnesses.

    the terraces • Since Nov 2006 • 298 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    The hysterical nature of the protest no doubt raised the temperature. But Labour should still turf him out of the party.

    Looked relatively clam compared to some of the protests I walked through back in the 90's, Russell - and I'd bet the house that there were plenty of folks inside the Bruce Mason this morning who were on the other side of the door then.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Looked relatively clam compared to some of the protests I walked through back in the 90's, Russell - and I'd bet the house that there were plenty of folks inside the Bruce Mason this morning who were on the other side of the door then.

    I think what's different about this one is that it was like a family squabble on the capital-L Left. The protesters were chanting "shame! shame!" at the Service and Food Workers Union people as they arrived, then wouldn't let Jill Ovens speak. The irony being that they were shouting down people who agreed with them about the TSA and the Ruatoki raids.

    Weird.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22749 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford,

    Yes it is getting pretty weird.

    The beehive is having a public open day tomorrow. I think I might keep the hell away.

    Looked relatively clam compared to some of the protests I walked through back in the 90's,...

    I was one of the protesters that made it onto the Hamilton rugby,
    during the anti apartheid protest,s in the early eighties. It was really scary. I hope we don't get that level of communal psychosis again.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4310 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    I think what's different about this one is that it was like a family squabble on the capital-L Left.

    No feud like a family feud - and the weird (and rather pleasant) thing about being in the Young Nats at Vic back in the 90's is that there were plenty of folks on 'the other side' you could at least be civil to, even quite good friends with. Perhaps I'm showing my grey hair, but it feels like politics isn't as much fun as it used to be - and a lot more bitter and apocalyptic.

    Anyway, I very much doubt it was the first time Ovens found herself in the middle of *cough* a free and frank exchange of views. At least she - from the look of the story on Three - had the good sense to just walk away; seems as if her only error of judgment wasn't to make sure her husband/partner followed her inside.

    And to be honest, RB, what kind of reception was Ovens really expecting? This wasn't a union gathering, but the annual conference of the Labour Party. And it sure looked like Clark thinks she's onto a winner by dog-whstling the terrorism meme as hard, and as long, as she can. ITA with you photos of a braying mob leading every news bulletin isn't exactly helpful to their cause. I'm just saying that I can understand why they may not have been interested in what any delegate to that conference had to say.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Margaret B,

    Richards has long been a hot-head, in the sense that he literally gets red in the face when angry and that rage is often quite close to the surface. The TV One coverage was very very damning of his actions (and the bizarre combination of inaction and action on the part of the police). They interviewed Richards and asked him about the hitting, he bald faced denied he had hit anyone. They then cut back to the coverage of him clearing hitting people with the megaphone, with a voiceover along the lines of "the camera doesn't lie". The police came out looking very bad, IMHO.

    The police seem to be determined not to make any friends at the moment. I can't understand why.

    Why should Ovens be responsible for the actions of her partner?? She did the right thing in walking away, he didn't, but now somehow some of the blame accrues to her? I don't understand that either.

    Since Oct 2007 • 59 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    At least she - from the look of the story on Three - had the good sense to just walk away; seems as if her only error of judgment wasn't to make sure her husband/partner followed her inside.

    The One News footage shows that quite compellingly: she put down the megaphone and walked away. Shame about hubby.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22749 posts Report Reply

  • Margaret B,

    Russell, you don't seem to have activated the Discuss button on your latest post?

    Since Oct 2007 • 59 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Russell, you don't seem to have activated the Discuss button on your latest post?

    D'oh! Done now. Comment away.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22749 posts Report Reply

  • Margaret B,

    Thanks Russell, much appreciated.

    Since Oct 2007 • 59 posts Report Reply

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