Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Not actually satire

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  • Jeremy Eade,

    "I think our seniors deserve a better champion than that pompous lazy fool."

    For sure , they should be on everyones list. Give them the city. There kinda dying but that's all they've got.

    auckland • Since Mar 2008 • 1112 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    Craig, I'm going to guess you have your pinky finger extended because you're precious, (just like the other boomers).

    You might want to work towards the middle. And FWIW I was born in 1972, so more a 'baby bust' brat than a boomer.

    To be quite honest, I'd be quite happy if the boomers (the leading edge of whom are hitting retirement) and their parents got used to hearing the word "No" -- but demographic, economic and social reality doesn't really seem to be a winning strategy so far.

    Well, how do you get off calling Winston Peters a psychotic racist and then expect me to take you seriously?

    Nothing about Winston Raymond Peters gets me off. Psychosis is being unable to distinguish between fantasy and reality, and perhaps you're right and I'm being unfair to Peters. He could just be a habitual liar who knows the difference between fact and fiction, the nasty prejudices he's scratched in the most unscrupulous ways, the people whose good names and reputations he's systematically destroyed, and just doesn't care.

    And if more than 5% of electors don't care either, and vote accordingly in a free and fair election-- well that's democracy, and I'm just going to have to keep living with it. But I'd infinitely prefer they don't, Winston leaves public life and we can actually have a public policy debate that isn't distorted by Peters.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Stephen Judd,

    OMG, I agree with Craig. And sacha.

    Also, although a large proportion of Peters' supporters are elderly, it does not follow that the reverse is true. Most old people see through him as well as the rest of us.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 3122 posts Report Reply

  • davidamstalden,

    No, you're all wrong and I'm right. (Sorry, I was channelling Winston when I wrote that).

    The thing is, Winston does pander to a (wide) racist streak in the NZ electorate. It's despicable, but the fact is that it's there. (And no-one can tell me that Brash in his time or Key, now, doesn't go the same way more subtly).

    Arguing that Winston alone is responsible for distorting and bastardising public debate in this country is stretching things, I think.

    And yes, he is pompous, (list me the MP's who aren't please).

    But you guys' arguing that his voters deserve someone better to represent them gives me the willies, frankly. It's THEIR decision. What would you do, give them a list of suitable candidates to coose from?

    Also, Craig, my pinky finger aside was a joke. I got your reference the first time. It makes me smug that you didn't get mine.

    New Plymouth • Since Mar 2008 • 45 posts Report Reply

  • Jeremy Eade,

    "Most old people see through him as well as the rest of us."

    for sure brother, it's certainly a militant minority but it's still 5%. Why the militancy and to be fair most nzfirst supporters I've met seem as crazy/uncrazy as any other supporter.

    auckland • Since Mar 2008 • 1112 posts Report Reply

  • davidamstalden,

    Whoops, instead of the coose above, please mentally insert choose.

    New Plymouth • Since Mar 2008 • 45 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    Sorry guys. Go and bitch about it over a drink after work, but don't act like your relationship with a politician is national news.

    Russell, I'd generally agree with you but I'll offer a qualified defence here. Peters isn't missing any opportunity to frame himself as the victim of a pack of liars, forgers and illiterate boobs who are out to get him. (And does anyone have any goss on where the threatened defamation actions against Philip Kitchen, Audrey Young and their respective organs stand?)

    Well that's how he's trying to frame the narrative, and for us politics junkies it's business as usual for Peters. I just think it's every bit as legitimate to report that he's behaving like J-Lo in psycho diva mode, as it was for Audrey Young and John Armstrong to defend themselves against allegations from John Key that they (in effect) fabricate quotes.

    Also, if I were an MP, I would also find it pretty hard not to slap Duncan Garner. The guy really seems like a bit of a dick.

    Well, I'm no fan of Duncan Garner -- I believe I described him as an 'equal opportunity fuckwit' on another thread a couple of weeks ago, and was being polite -- but calling Audrey Young a liar, and initially strongly implying she'd forged documents she based a story on? Come on... that's totally beyond the pale, because I believe journalists still get fired for that kind of nonsense.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Jeremy Eade,

    "The thing is, Winston does pander to a (wide) racist streak in the NZ electorate."

    well, immigration is an issue dude and supporters of reform that might slow it down shouldn't be called racist. Winnies not really the right face for a racist party.

    I actually support immigration strongly but it's an invisible topic.

    auckland • Since Mar 2008 • 1112 posts Report Reply

  • davidamstalden,

    Jeremy, I was just trying to suggest that a lot of Winston's support comes from those, (particularly elderly), voters who feel unsettled by the influx of different cultures to this country. I wasn't trying to excuse them or his pandering to their fears, but rather raising the idea that their concerns were legitimate and deserved a fair hearing.

    New Plymouth • Since Mar 2008 • 45 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    well, immigration is an issue dude and supporters of reform that might slow it down shouldn't be called racist.

    That's a fair point Jeremy. I regard immigration as an area of public policy that desperately needs a free and frank debate, because you can't say the status quo is as good as it gets. But if we're going to get any worthwhile outcomes, that debate also has to be grounded in (to use another R-word) reality. It's also getting nowhere when it devolved into another pissing match about bloody Asians.

    Winnies not really the right face for a racist party.

    But I've got to say with great shame that some of the most virulently racist mofos I've ever come across are in my own whanau. It would be nice if melanin was some kind of vaccine against bigotry, but the world doesn't spin like that.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Jeremy Eade,

    "(particularly elderly), voters who feel unsettled by the influx of different cultures to this country. "

    IMHO this is felt particuarly strongly with older working class guys, I don't know why but it's there and it's almost certainly a complicated
    emotion but these guys are in all other aspects stand up citizens.

    auckland • Since Mar 2008 • 1112 posts Report Reply

  • Jeremy Eade,

    "It's also getting nowhere when it devolved into another pissing match about bloody Asians."

    absolutely craig especially as winnie is descended from them. Read your science Peters.

    auckland • Since Mar 2008 • 1112 posts Report Reply

  • Shep Cheyenne,

    Round does the Environmental Law paper at Canty & I know of a few who moved to other schools like Waikato because of his middle age malaise typified by an underlying racism.

    Since Oct 2007 • 927 posts Report Reply

  • Jeremy Eade,

    "But I've got to say with great shame that some of the most virulently racist mofos I've ever come across are in my own whanau. It would be nice if melanin was some kind of vaccine against bigotry, but the world doesn't spin like that.'

    But in an immigration sense it's a policy filtered through maori activities/aspiration of still trying to recognise what the actual real 1840 partnership entitles you to as a maori (party). So maybe you want to say let's just hold the immigration until my children are as healthy as yours.

    auckland • Since Mar 2008 • 1112 posts Report Reply

  • Shep Cheyenne,

    "Man Bites Dog" - fave french movie

    Nice to know I'm not the only one whos "taken a break" from Post Grad study.

    Lucy that line of "the books are coming to get me" - loved it so much.

    Since Oct 2007 • 927 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    activities/aspiration of still trying to recognise what the actual real 1840 partnership entitles you to as a maori (party). So maybe you want to say let's just hold the immigration until my children are as healthy as yours.

    Except, Jeremy, what actually happens (especially when Tariana Turia gets her freak on) is some truly creepy and profoundly confused mouth-farts like this:

    "The concerns of Maori must not be brushed aside again" said Mrs Turia today, responding to statements she had made about the impact of the Government's immigration policy on the creation of the Maori electoral districts. The Maori Party has fielded many calls from constituents, who believe that the fact Maori did not achieve an eighth electoral seat is a direct consequence of high overall population growth that has arisen through the influx of migrants to Aotearoa.

    Buddha, Allah, Jesus and Jehovah... If Mrs Turia really wants to know why there isn't an eighth Maori seat today, she should stop blaming the dirty foreigners and ask why the hell I'd flip my registration after reading that kind of balls?

    You've made a perfectly fair point that the R-word shouldn't be thrown around indiscriminately, Jeremy. But if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, convincing me it's a chicken is going to be a very hard sell indeed. As I've said repeatedly here, I don't find brown-neck bigotry any more attractive than that of the wrinkled red-neck variety.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Jeremy Eade,

    "Buddha, Allah, Jesus and Jehovah... "

    These guys hardly post anymore . It's like they've lost interest.

    auckland • Since Mar 2008 • 1112 posts Report Reply

  • Stephen Judd,

    you guys' arguing that his voters deserve someone better to represent them gives me the willies, frankly. It's THEIR decision. What would you do, give them a list of suitable candidates to coose from?

    Of course I wouldn't give them a list. That doesn't mean I can't have an opinion on Peters' effectiveness. (Hell, in many ways I'm not too happy with the leaders of the causes I support either.)

    The fact that his support has been declining for a long time suggests to me that his original constituency doesn't think much to him either.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 3122 posts Report Reply

  • Jeremy Eade,

    "As I've said repeatedly here, I don't find brown-neck bigotry any more attractive than that of the wrinkled red-neck variety."

    I agree but it wouldn't hurt to try and understand it. Look we all have our angles. I mean we all hate Wellingtonians right but I'm not sure we should send them all back, I think just take the capital off them for starters......then maybe they'll start to think like aucklanders.

    auckland • Since Mar 2008 • 1112 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    Still, one way to avoid that nasty 'demographic swamping' is to breed:

    It’s not a numbers game …..but then again, it is disappointing to read that statisticians state the annual growth rate of the Maori population is projected to slow from 1.4% in 2002 to 1.2% in 2021.

    The statisticians tells us that the age structure of the Maori population will undergo change reflecting, amongst other factors, our reduced fertility.

    What this will mean for instance, is that the demographics of our population start creeping upwards. The number of Maori children aged between 0-14 years as a proportion of the total Maori population will fall from 37% to 30% over the next twenty years.

    Maybe one of our policy goals in the Maori Party should be to go forth and multiply!

    Oy... I'm really tempted to auto-Godwin myself, and remind folks of what kind of people have tended to regard socially responsible reproduction (or at least, reproduction of desirable demographics) as a cultural and political imperative. It's not a very pretty rogue's gallery - and someone should explain to Mrs Turia why Eugenics is a term that carries a distinct (and well-deserved) whiff of sewer gas about it nowadays.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    I agree but it wouldn't hurt to try and understand it

    You have a point, again, but does it have to feel like you've accepted an invitation to a pot luck dinner for two from Hannibal Lecter? I know this sounds pretentious, but I find it almost physically painful trying to get my head around the thought processes (hard to dignify with terms like 'reasoning' or 'logic') of people like Turia and Peters. Because they're not appealing to reason and rational argument, but prejudice.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Don Christie,

    One Peter's claim I can believe is this one:

    We were told there's a pot of money for more dirt on Peters and NZ First.

    Given the propensity of certain organisations to hire private investigators and the like before, during and after the last election that would not surprise me.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 1645 posts Report Reply

  • Jeremy Eade,

    "You have a point, again, but does it have to feel like you've accepted an invitation to a pot luck dinner for two from Hannibal Lecter?'

    Hannibal Lector......mate I'd eat him for breakfast.

    auckland • Since Mar 2008 • 1112 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    Given the propensity of certain organisations to hire private investigators and the like before, during and after the last election that would not surprise me.

    Well, Don, are you talking about TVNZ because that's the specific allegation Peters has been making. Surely, it would be a simple matter to summon former head of news and current affairs Bill Ralston before the relevant select committee, put him under oath, and ask him if he ever hired private investigators to trail Winston Peters -- or caused, or knew of, anyone else doing so. Or for Winston Peters to put a question to the Broadcasting Minister.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    Instead, Don, let me answer my own question. "'What is Truth?' said jesting Pilate; and would not stay for an answer."

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

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