Hard News: So far from trivial
1076 Responses
First ←Older Page 1 … 10 11 12 13 14 … 44 Newer→ Last
-
Sorry, not to get all historical on your ass again, but... emphatically yes. Racist iconography has often associated African-Americans with apes or monkeys as a dehumanising slur.
Yes. I know what you're getting at. But.. that's not what he purportedly said is it. If he'd said something like "the Williams sisters remind me of a pair of apes" then it would be a no-brainer. What does "it makes you realise where apes come from" mean? How does that even make sense, even to a racist?
-
Holmes is all over this, isn't he? Getting the exclusive interview on one hand, drafting the on-air apology on the other, and also justifying and diminishing Veitch's actions in his own radio comment, linked from here:
www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10520857
But unlike most here, I don't think that Tui billboard is in poor taste. I take it as saying, "Veitch, how could you ever think that something as terrible as this would stay quiet?" I don't see it as an indictment of Dunne-Powell.
-
What does "it makes you realise where apes come from" mean? How does that even make sense, even to a racist?
Heh, because he didn't articulate the sentiment so well, doesn't mean we can't comprehend what he was getting at.
-
I refer you to the habit of some supporters of making ape noises and throwing bananas at black players until at least the the 90s in England and the 21st century in some parts of Europe.
In the mid eighties my wife and I went to a one dayer at Lancaster Park where bananas were thrown at the West Indian born English bowler Gladstone Small. Small has Klippel-Feil syndrome which accounts for his distinctive "no neck" appearance.
My wife has never been back to the venue.
-
Heh, because he didn't articulate the sentiment so well, doesn't mean we can't comprehend what he was getting at.
Yeah.. I guess that I was hoping that given more context it may have made more sense and/or even been explained -- much like the Holmes "cheeky darkie" remark.
Oh man, I loved Gladstone Small on that tour. He was ferocious, and that delivery action! Stuff of nightmares for a 10-yr old batsman.
-
Individuals on PAS with far more intimate knowledge of employment law than I have stated that if TVNZ knew about the assault previously, it would negate any 'disrepute' clause in Veitch's contract. I say again: hmmm....
Please, dont let me mis-represent myself... I dont claim any intimate knowledge of employment law.... it just stands to reason..... you cant claim to be shocked and horrified about new revelations.... if they are not in-fact new to you.
I would indeed be interested in more knowledgeable opinion on this matter myself...
-
Some conflicting stuff coming out.
Ridge saying he might not want to work with him again on Game of Two Halves, and advertisers Nufarm and Nature Bee are reviewing their support for the radio network if he stays on air."It's despicable. I've never been one to condone violence, especially violence against women. "In my book it's a no-no."
But TVNZ reportedly considering bringing him back after the Olympic coverage (which he was going to front).
And then there's the legal experts saying he could face "several years behind bars if convicted of the assault".
Quite frankly I don't see how on earth he can stay in his current jobs for at least a couple of years. Paul Holmes and Veitch had better be writing one hell of a redemption song.
-
Please, dont let me mis-represent myself... I dont claim any intimate knowledge of employment law.... it just stands to reason..... you cant claim to be shocked and horrified about new revelations.... if they are not in-fact new to you.
No no, completely agree with your logic there Fletcher, stands to reason. So yes, any legal types who want to clarify, please do.
-
The whole racist thing about apes really pisses me off, it has stolen something that was precious to me.
I was always a little monkey and when on the turps as a young guy could pull off a gorilla or chimp parkour style (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkour), which had my mates ROFL. Potgut (sorry for that image) restricts me to my Silver-back displays (not silver still nice brown-hairy-back these days) and doesn't get shown that often either.
And I have a Gorilla on my computor - as you do. -
Good to see that Ridge is able to make the distinction between assault and armed robbery so easily…
-
Some conflicting stuff coming out.
Indeed - but I have a very small grain of sympathy for TVNZ. That organisation has certainly had enough employment law-related sewage dumped on its head (with the attendant legal costs) in public over recent years. Even people who'd like to see Veitch tarred, feathered and run into the sea on a rail would (I suspect) rather not see the state-owned broadcaster handing him a large unjustified dismissal settlement on his way out the door.
In a way, it's like the (protracted) departure of Clint Rickards from the Police force. My instinct was "just get cut the cheque and get this scumbag out of the building". But, on calmer reflection, I do understand why the NZPF had to step a little more gingerly that I'd have liked. It was an unenviable situation, even if (debatably) one largely of the Police's own making.
-
Some conflicting stuff coming out [...] Ridge saying he might not want to work with him again on Game of Two Halves
At first after I read that I was furious: "Who gave that asshat Ridge the talking stick and asked him to pontificate 'pon tings?" etc. etc.
But then I realised.. of course, his management would have been in his ear for days, probably: "Publicly distance yourself from him at first opportunity, or some of the shit might stick" and so on. Canny.
-
Dear TVNZ,
In regard to the future of your "talent", Mr Veitch. My continued viewing of your network is hanging by a thread. Please consider the following:
1. By not immediately issuing a statement condemning his actions you will be seen to be prevaricating and possibly condoning his behaviour due to his "exhaustion" and other "mitigating" circumstances. I understand legal issues in relation to employment contracts are in play but that does not hinder your ability to say what is necessary in regard to condemning the act itself.
2. Who within the organisation knew? How's that sitting with the lawyers - and your consciences? Any likelihood of an explanation anytime soon? Will heads roll?
3. The "let's keep this to ourselves contract" was likely made from income-related savings, i.e. taxpayer dollars. I assume he is still on full salary pending further investigations...I'm not liking that much either.
4. There can never be a second chance for behaviour like this. Veitch made a choice to repeatedly kick a fellow human being and then tried to avoid a police investigation. If he is reinstated you explicitly forgive an unforgivable act.
5. I could go on.
6. Best you do the right thing asap.
I for one can live without your programming to take a stand on this. I imagine there are plenty more who feel the same way.
-
Oh, look, the Herald thinks that only ethics lecturers need to be held to some sort of standard:
In the meantime, he could continue in his limited public role of talking sport. It is not as if he is lecturing in morality, integrity, decency and respect for others.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/466/story.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10520932
-
Paul Litterick at the Fundy Post asks an excellent question: where is the press release from the Sensible Sentencing Trust?
You'd think that a violent offender evading jail altogether would have Garth McVicar outraged...
-
here can never be a second chance for behaviour like this. Veitch made a choice to repeatedly kick a fellow human being and then tried to avoid a police investigation. If he is reinstated you explicitly forgive an unforgivable act.
I'm conflicted about this. I agree that his behaviour was appalling, and it should be condemned. But if we say that it's unforgivable, then we give people no chance of rehabilitation, no chance of trying to make amends, examine their behaviour, resolve to learn to do better.
At the same time, I don't want to see him on screen again - lucky I live in Adelaide. And I am so over the Veitchy-Ridgy-laddy-boys-will-be-boys culture. I don't think that the culture is causative of the violence, because we all know that domestic violence is cross-cultural - it happens in all social groups. At the same time, I can't help thinking that it gives people permission to be .... can't think of a good word here... maybe 'thugs'. I haven't got my thinking clear on this yet.
-
"morality, integrity, decency and respect for others"
But, but, but... isn't that what sport is about? Good clean healthy instillation of moral virtue into the corpore sano on the playing fields of Eton?
THE NEW ZEALAND HERALD INSULTS SPORT.
-
Isn't that what life is about?
-
I'm conflicted about this. I agree that his behaviour was appalling, and it should be condemned. But if we say that it's unforgivable, then we give people no chance of rehabilitation, no chance of trying to make amends, examine their behaviour, resolve to learn to do better.
Yeah, me too. And wasn't one of the great things about the 'it's not okay' campaign seeing real people talking about how they did stupid bad things and managed to reform and get their lives back together?
-
well yes, redemption etc etc. but after a conviction. we wouldn't accept less from any other crime so why this one? the redemption etc can be taken into account during sentencing, as is usually the case.
-
I think that's part of why I'm feeling conflicted. Too much PR speak in the apology, the 'I was tired and stressed' excuse - it doesn't feel sincere to me. I get the feeling he's sorry to have been caught, not sorry for the appalling attack in the first place.
-
The whole racist thing about apes really pisses me off, it has stolen something that was precious to me.
There's story somewhere about a woman int he States getting a citation (?) for racial abuse for allegedly yelling, "come down out of the tree, you little monkeys" at a group of kids who were playing in said tree. (PC gone mad, if you believe the writer (Mark Stein, maybe?) but he then used it as an excuse for not increasing funding to US state schools.<digression/>
-
well yes, redemption etc etc. but after a conviction. we wouldn't accept less from any other crime so why this one? the redemption etc can be taken into account during sentencing, as is usually the case.
anjum, you appear to be saying that reformation is contingent on being caught. To which the response is as Deborah has said, 'he's just sorry he got caught'.
I've seen people reform without criminal convictions, and people serve sentences and come out exactly the same as before they were charged.
But I do see the contradiction between being genuinely sorry for something, and actively working to cover it up.
-
I'm conflicted about this. I agree that his behaviour was appalling, and it should be condemned. But if we say that it's unforgivable, then we give people no chance of rehabilitation, no chance of trying to make amends, examine their behaviour, resolve to learn to do better.
Point noted and in fact I feel the same way. What I meant - and should have made clearer - is that I could not stomach his return to TVNZ given the current circumstances. In that sphere there is no forgiveness and return to work possible because, even if it were five years from now, it still explicitly forgives him. The only caveat would be if Veitch were to fully confess and own his actions, serve a sentence, undergo counselling and restorative justice meetings and appear in whatever equivilant of the "It's not ok" adverts that were running at the time.
It'd be nice if TVNZ were also to pull the pin on the asinine "blokey" shit that gives guys like Veitch a career in broadcasting in the first place.
-
anjum, you appear to be saying that reformation is contingent on being caught. To which the response is as Deborah has said, 'he's just sorry he got caught'.
what i was trying to say is that this crime should be treated like all other crimes. we wouldn't take "i'm sorry" as a response to any other crime, without making sure that a conviction happened first. even restorative justice requires that, i would think.
whether he is truly sorry or not is something to consider after conviction.
Post your response…
This topic is closed.