Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: So long, and thanks for all the fish ...

365 Responses

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  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to David Haywood,

    Isn’t the gelding bit a reference to Grover Cleveland’s illegitimate child scandal:

    Well, that would display a fascinating (if somewhat random and totally irrelevant) knowledge of the historical minutiae of American presidential campaigns on Jones' part, considering he was being asked about a proposed rule change to allow woman-only shortlists. Thankfully, I'm in no position to know whether he Freudian slipped in his castration anxiety.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Martin Lindberg, in reply to Sofie Bribiesca,

    I can completely hear some of the locals calling women geldings

    How does calling women geldings even make sense? A gelding is a castrated male horse.

    Stockholm • Since Jul 2009 • 802 posts Report Reply

  • Hebe, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    Appoint a pack of attack dogs to slag off your potential coalition partners as “haters and wreckers”, tree-hugging loonie birds etc. until the day after the election, when you artlessly expect your new best friends to just GTFOI and come to Jesus.

    Oooo Craig, you have such a way with words ....

    Christchurch • Since May 2011 • 2895 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Emma Hart,

    Fair dos, I was asked those exact same questions about two power companies in a focus group. What would they wear, where would they live, etc.

    Yes, it goes to perception of them, indirectly. I could see why they were doing it, but it was interesting how little of the point of the group was to actually find out what I think I wanted Shearer to change. It was "what information/messages would change my perceptions?". Since there were no revelations to me about Shearer, my perceptions didn't change. Nor did it seem that many of the apparently left wing people found out anything they didn't already know. What Shearer is like was not news to them. But to the National voters, there was a change. Beforehand they simply had no idea about him, and afterward, they were better disposed to him.

    But for all that, it didn't seem like anywhere near enough for them to then decide to vote for the guy. They liked everything about Shearer that made him like Key, but of course, they liked Key better.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10630 posts Report Reply

  • Lucy Telfar Barnard, in reply to Martin Lindberg,

    I believe that's the point. It's not just that female politicians are horses; they're castrated male horses.

    David, the possible reference to Grover Cleveland is fascinating, but I just don't buy it - the full quote was "Mr Jones said he had spent yesterday in and around Kerikeri and Kaitaia talking about the [women-only electorates] proposal, 'and the overwhelming response is the public doesn't want the country run by geldings.'"

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 580 posts Report Reply

  • Stephen Judd, in reply to Lucy Telfar Barnard,

    I read "geldings" as a reference to male supporters of the quote proposals, equally offensive but in a different way.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 3122 posts Report Reply

  • Hebe, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    Appoint a pack of attack dogs…etc

    I lost the rest of my response in a late edit, and need to add it to clarify my thoughts:

    That is a valid point of view, but it helps no Green or Labour supporters in any way other than pouring a bucket of bile on a relationship that needs work.

    I want to see mutual respect and trust between Labour and the Greens in order to get the Greens into a meaningful voice in government that reflects the votes cast for the party and candidates. That will require substantial adjustment in the Labour hierarchy’s thinking re the Greens and re the nature of MMP power-sharing.

    If I were the National Party strategist, I would be actively encouraging comments like yours Craig. Division between Labour and the Greens is the way to maintain power for a third term as is the absurd “lunatic” name-calling for the Greens
    – first used I think by United Future’s Marc Alexander after he lost his place in Parliament. Now adopted by conservative parties worldwide, especially those under Crosby-Textor’s wing (UK, Australia, NZ).

    Christchurch • Since May 2011 • 2895 posts Report Reply

  • Deborah, in reply to Stephen Judd,

    I read it that way too, Stephen. Equally nasty, and directed at men who allowed (?) themselves to be ruled by women.

    New Lynn • Since Nov 2006 • 1445 posts Report Reply

  • Martin Lindberg, in reply to Stephen Judd,

    I read “geldings” as a reference to male supporters of the quote proposals, equally offensive but in a different way.

    Or maybe he’s just referring to men who don’t use public funding to jack off.

    Stockholm • Since Jul 2009 • 802 posts Report Reply

  • Keir Leslie,

    Yeah, I thought it was intended like that.

    I also wonder if Jones would have spoken like that at the Auckland Regional Conference, face to face with the people he was insulting.

    Since Jul 2008 • 1452 posts Report Reply

  • Hebe,

    Shane Jones is a distraction who will damage Labour in the public perception yet again while the meat goes unchewed by the media. Why waste your time on him?

    Christchurch • Since May 2011 • 2895 posts Report Reply

  • Lucy Telfar Barnard,

    Oh, and just listening to Nine to Noon's earlier interview with Robertson and Jones, I hear him saying (about 12 minutes in) that he did intend to refer to Grover Cleveland. But he also says something like he didn't explain at the time because "in politics, explaining is losing". I don't really think that's good enough either.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 580 posts Report Reply

  • Rob Hosking, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    Nice to see that Andrea Vance is a Public Address reader…
    …or if not flattery by imitation, it must be a resonant cultural meme…

    Actually, Chris Keall used it on NBR ONLINE, last Thursday afternoon, only an hour or two after the announcement.

    South Roseneath • Since Nov 2006 • 830 posts Report Reply

  • Rob Hosking, in reply to Stephen Judd,

    read “geldings” as a reference to male supporters of the quote proposals, equally offensive but in a different way.

    Yep, I think that's what he meant.

    And I think he wants to be attacked for making comments like this. That's the whole point.

    South Roseneath • Since Nov 2006 • 830 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    What gives at The Civilian?
    I thought the guy was quite amusing until I saw his latest effort.
    Way to kick a man when he is down (but not out) and leave the hapless JK untouched.
    Fer shame...

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • Lucy Telfar Barnard,

    Shane also addresses the "geldings" comment again from about 27 minutes on. I had hoped he might have meant it in relation to his own behaviour - if he had been talking about it as peoples' response to his blue movie watching, I could just about have lived with it. But apparently not. He did mean to use it in the context of the female-only electorate debate, and goes on to say "to suggest that it's misogynist, or anti-women, I understand where some of these university graduates are coming from, but that's not the broad response I've had up and down the country".

    Clearly not using "broad" in the sense it had in 1990s flatmate ads then...

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 580 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Rob Hosking,

    Actually, Chris Keall used it on NBR ONLINE, last Thursday afternoon, only an hour or two after the announcement.

    Neck and neck with Russell, then...

    2:01PM Aug 22, 2013

    Does either of them have access to an Infinite Improbability Drive?
    ;- )

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7886 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Rob Hosking,

    Actually, Chris Keall used it on NBR ONLINE, last Thursday afternoon, only an hour or two after the announcement.

    It kind of lends itself, although I'm not sure if anyone has really meant it the way it was meant in the original. It's the last message from the dolphins to humans before the destruction of Earth, whereas the predominant expectation is that Labour's chances will probably improve now.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10630 posts Report Reply

  • Stephen Judd,

    The "university graduate" thing is particularly hypocritical for a man with a BA, a Masters and a Harvard fellowship.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 3122 posts Report Reply

  • Raymond A Francis, in reply to Sofie Bribiesca,

    Have a feeling rural people are well aware of the difference between a gelding (castrated male) and a female
    I can't imagine anybody thinking they are the same thing
    On the other hand someone who went to Harvard could be aware of the President Cleveland quote
    just saying

    45' South • Since Nov 2006 • 576 posts Report Reply

  • Ben McNicoll, in reply to Stephen Judd,

    Shane Jones' dog-whistling is odious, and a style of politics I would prefer confined to see eliminated, but the right can have it if they want it.

    ETA: which is a remarkably good indicator of where Jones sits on the spectrum within Labour I would posit.

    Grey Lynn • Since May 2007 • 115 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to Raymond A Francis,

    As Lucy mentioned, and others suggested,he does explain that he was referring to President Grover Cleveland but also suggested by others is that his explanation isn't really good enough. Even hypocritical.
    I'm not suggesting rural people wouldn't know the difference just that I can imagine people I've encountered North who could repeat all sorts of rubbish.Hell,I hear people still sayin' "well she sometimes deserved it...." when referring to knowledge of domestic violent situations.That's my point. The provinces are quite different to the main cities.

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • Keir Leslie, in reply to Rob Stowell,

    Well, look, Grant was the chair of the Policy Council when it wrote the new platform. Obviously it's not a direct reflection of his beliefs, but it does give a suggestion about what kind of space he's operating within.

    It is also very much the case that Grant's not been in a position to take distinct political stances, because he's been a loyal deputy and front-bencher for the past few years.

    Since Jul 2008 • 1452 posts Report Reply

  • Rob Hosking, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    Does either of them have access to an Infinite Improbability Drive?

    Well, it was a Thursday. As in, never could get the hang of....

    South Roseneath • Since Nov 2006 • 830 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to Keir Leslie,

    So it looks like there are 3 suspected contenders which I think shows the diversity of the party.. No matter, I'm really happy that everyone from media, Party faithful and the public in general are all chatting about this. I'm really pleased at the diversity. I believe it will help enhance the labour vote giving everyone a feeling of connection no matter who prefers who.Let's hope it leads to victory 2014. I think they all have a chance. That's healthy. The Greens are a natural alliance too.

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

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