Hard News: Taking a very big gamble
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...and is it only a coincidence that Chchch Central's new Labour Candidate, Tony Milne, is National Manager of Public Health at the Problem Gambling Foundation in Chchch?
I guess he'd would've had to resign when elected any way...
It is really, really sad seeing the people who actually want to help people having to fight each other for the few bones thrown from the 'big table', to do so...
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Kumara Republic, in reply to
Another example of the much-too-cosy relationship between the current government and vested interests ?
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Chris Waugh, in reply to
With a chain of command coming down from the United States.
Ummm... London, actually. The London in England.
well healed
Well heeled, surely, especially in light of your previous statements.
And is it competitive? In my experience they're the kind of people who'd rather be out of business than cleaning up the messes left by government policy and heartless economics, and they tend to cooperate with others in the field.
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It all seems so pointless dismissing PGF so blithely. A waste of money, resources and a huge pool of talented people, whose knowledge and experience will go with them. Fair enough if they had done a review and found fault with the service, then decide to go out and re-tender.
If the winning bid was superior, how come the captain on the radio didn't even know what he had bid for…
I have a personal interest in this, as my wife works for PGF, but felt the same outrage when Novopay happened and the blood testing service was changed. Why change?
PGF are always out there in the community trying to reach people. Going to the prisons, going online to treat gamblers, hosting groups etc. Are the Sallies going to offer such dedication and innovation? -
We have just been in contact with Peter Dunne with an offer to take over the problem gambling contract from the Salvation Army. We argued the Army has far too many staff (well in excess of 17) and have not "cured" a single gambler since picking up the contract and are frankly just a bit too noisy with all the band practice.
We, both of us, are fully equipped with gallons of cold water, a plumbers mate and a mix of Hank Williams songs and have offered to do the job, part time, for 75 bux a week. Dunne is 'seriously considering' the offer.
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Look, RossMcA is really the point of this post. Not if some of us do or don’t agree with The SA, although thanks for the opportunity to pick flaws as it might be noticed by someone who takes criticism well.
The point is, why change? What benefit to exclude a successful group with a great rep and a tonne of knowledge particular to gambling all because “a superior offer” came from another group with success in a similar field. Do we know exactly what the superior offer actually entails? Size obviously is taken into account but I suspect it’s( like Parata hinted with schools) bean counting. I also suspect Tau Henare has told us exactly how all National mostly think and if given a choice would support that who don’t criticize the Government.Trouble is he probably is one of the few to gamble that tweet.
As an accountant is the Minister of Health and thus the head of the Ministry, I think it’s primarily about accounting and squeezing savings. It’s a numbers game to them, not a considerate one. It aligns with bringing the books into surplus for 2015. Penny pinching.Robbing Peter to pay Paul. Or PGF to pay SA and yes how satisfying to clip the wings of PGF. I wonder what percentage of support for the SA are National Voters?
Who out of National can anyone see as really caring about Gamblers? Who out of National can anyone see really caring about money? -
Wow.
The Salvation Army professes to be completely blindsided by the news it's to take over as national provider than that the Problem Gambling Foundation has been killed off. They are understandably unprepared for the work they're now being asked to do.
It's hard to see how this isn't both a disgrace and a debacle.
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Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to
It’s hard to see how this isn’t both a disgrace and a debacle.
So who exactly signed off the funding? Is it Dunne?
Ahh, so as the article suggests, there have been complaints. Follow who made those, would be telling...
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Chris Waugh, in reply to
The Salvation Army professes to be completely blindsided
From the same article:
The Salvation Army - which also publicly opposed the National-SkyCity deal
So how much of the PGF being dumped is petty revenge for its outspokenness, and how much of the suggestion that the PGF is being dumped out of revenge some people's assumptions and Tau Henare being a dick? Serious question, because the Salvation Army and the other big Christian social services have a history of speaking out on social and political issues.
And:
Former foundation head John Stansfield said that the key difference between the two organisations was that the foundation had a strong track record on prevention while the Army focused on treatment.
Nice to know the government prefers to have ambulances lined up at the bottom of cliffs rather than fences at the top. Seeing as everything is measured in terms of monetary value these days: Wouldn't it be cheaper to build a fence along the top of the cliff? Has nobody done a study into the wider economic impact of having ambulances constantly trundle along the bottom of cliffs picking up bodies vs. fencing off the top? I'm pretty sure the fence would come off cheaper not just in the long term, but in the short term, too.
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You can buy more ambulances at the bottom of the cliff if you stop paying to build the fence at the top. No more supporting local communities to reduce gambling outlets, that sort of thing. Just counselling the steady stream of victims.
That's what passes for cost-effectiveness in the eyes of some silly folk, including the evaluaton panel in this instance, perhaps. It's also consistent with the pressure applied across govt services to do 'more' with less. Simple solutions appeal to simpletons.
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Sacha, in reply to
ah, snap
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Sacha, in reply to
I'm pretty sure the fence would come off cheaper
the trick is you have to keep funding the ambulances while you build the fence, which takes many years
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Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to
You can buy more ambulances at the bottom of the cliff if you stop paying to build the fence at the top.
Plus the fence at the top wont help the Casino.
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Hebe, in reply to
Wtf?
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Has anyone published the Terms of Reference for the review panel? Be interesting to see what they were instructed to do.
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I have been on both sides of the tender process with disability-related tenders at the Ministry of Health. At various times over the last decade I have been either a consumer rep on an MoH panel or part of a group tendering. What I found from being on the inside is that every decision has to be clearly justified and they are meticulous about using a transparent scoring system so the decision can later be justified if challenged by a losing tenderer or other interested party. Maybe things have changed now, as that was a few years ago, but the rationale for the decision should be available with an OIA request.
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BenWilson, in reply to
It’s hard to see how this isn’t both a disgrace and a debacle.
It's pretty astonishing.
Wtf?
I second that. WTFF? This one should be all over the news.
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The ministerial panel and PWC have, at very best, extrapolated the Salvation Army's' bid to be 'better value', at worst it's slap down for PGF, with no real basis for success from the new contract holder.
If it's the former, I can only imagine that the SA will have to sub contract experts from the PGF, wich really makes this an employment issue as much as political skulduggery.
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http://www.salvationarmy.org.nz/about-us/position-statements
policy wise, the Salvation Army should not take donations from any source of corruption and they define gambling as corruption on their website.
Sup with the devil.
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Chris Waugh, in reply to
policy wise
Which of those position statements were you referring to? The statement on corruption defines corruption thusly:
Corruption may be defined as giving, obtaining or denying advantage through means which are illegitimate, immoral and/or inconsistent with one’s responsibility towards other people. Corruption is a global challenge, impacting to various degrees, and in various ways, societies around the world.[1]
Corruption is a generic term which includes such things as bribery, extortion, cronyism, and nepotism. It can also take the form of obstruction of justice. Corruption can take many forms that vary in degree from the minor use of influence to systemic, pervasive institutionalised bribery. ‘Agent fees’ can be a euphemism for another type of bribe, an amount that is paid above the normal fee to an agent who in turn uses it to bribe certain individuals or officials to facilitate the granting of a contract or other favours.
So it doesn't seem to be immediately relevant, unless somebody wants to allege they paid a bribe to secure this contract, which would be a surprise considering they apparently didn't even know about the contract until they picked up the newspaper. It does say:
The Salvation Army will not knowingly accept any donations coming from the proceeds of corruption.
It certainly does not define gambling as corruption.
The statement on gambling, which would seem most relevant to the issue at hand, doesn't seem to have anything to say about taking money from gambling, but given:
Governments are supposed to be God’s servants and seek the welfare of society as a whole. When the state uses gambling to collect revenue from a vulnerable population, it is not acting in good faith towards the citizens it is to serve.
and
Salvation Army soldiers commit to abstain from gambling in any form. In the context of fundraising for charities, Salvationists are encouraged to make donations rather than participate in gambling activities.
and
The Salvation Army engages in advocacy with governments, commercial entities and individuals concerning the inherent dangers of gambling and the suffering it inflicts on gamblers and their families.
"Salvation Army Gambling Addiction Services brought to you by Sky City" would seem to be very strange, indeed.
The money involved in this issue is supposed to be coming from the state, isn't it? In that case:
The Salvation Army will work with the State and its agencies to deliver and provide humanitarian and social services that benefit people without discrimination.
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Apologies off-topic but: Is it just me or is anyone else hoha on the government spending such a campaign on selling their attractively priced Genesis shares, complete with jingle? (I've just clocked eyes on them). I mean, for those in the market, it's on investors radar already and yet our money has been diverted into mainstream peak time advertising that looks to me beyond the cost of the previous share issues. Happy for the creative in the ad market, but seriously. how many thousands went into this? I fell an OIA coming on.
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Thanks for that thoughtful response Christ, I think you talked yourself around in the end.
As for the monies being from the state, I think the money is from gaming for problem gamblers not from the general pool. Does the political and administrative function of government wash the money of corruption? I don't think so.
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Sacha, in reply to
Fascinating. That sounds like two businessmen who were church members, not the church itself. I'm guessing that is their band in the picture though?
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Sacha, in reply to
bless em :)
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Nice to know the government prefers to have ambulances lined up at the bottom of cliffs rather than fences at the top.
Someone was talking about this in another context last week - National is all about "freedom of choice" and "personal responsibility". Hence no fence at the top, and ambulances run on a commercial basis at the bottom. Remember that, and you'll have a better chance of understanding their weird policy choices.
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