Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Te Qaeda and the God Squad

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  • Michael Fitzgerald,

    As Malcolm X said Democracy is just the disguise of hypocracy.

    As for Bomber - no he's not been reasonable - he has held a some what fluid position (at best) & has ered on the side of presumed guilt. Classic middle class playing radical for cash. A poser if you will.

    With all the politically lead (but justified) witch hunts what top cop isn't in Labours favour (remember those pornos Broad? No? Thanks Helen). 2 years = re-election campaign.

    I might say their is quite a bit of distance between the ruling elite and Tuhoe and more still between Tuhoe & Tame Iti. If there is a safe target in NZ he's it.

    1972 Tame Iti set up camp outside the Beehive, 30000 signatures were gathered for the teaching of Te Reo Maori. 1985 Maori became an offical language of NZ.

    Kia ora Tame Iti for your justified campaigns which have made New Zealand a better place to live.

    Since May 2007 • 631 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    And before anyone plays the race card and sez it was only Maori who got stopped and photographed ... this is not the first time the Police have photographed people en masse. Last time it was the (predominantly) middle class whitey

    Ah yes. That was a strange one.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22761 posts Report Reply

  • Stephen Judd,

    But justice has to be seen to be done in the right place - in a court not right now in the media.

    What I'm referring to is the suppression of all aspects of the bail hearing - the proceedings in the court. I'm not asking for a media statement from a police spokesperson, I want to know what was said in court.

    It's unusual to deny bail on firearms charges. It's very unusual to suppress all information. We don't even know WHY the suppression.

    The police are on the back foot in this respect because they cannot go public with all the information they have.

    Maybe it's the other way around. The police cannot go public with all the information because they are on the back foot...

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 3122 posts Report Reply

  • Yoza,

    We all know the "ruling elite" here, and their dirty little secrets, all too well.

    The ruling elite don't necessarily have to be New Zealand elites to affect New Zealand policy. Pressure can be easily applied to a small country/economy like New Zealand by the larger sharks (U.S., Britain and Australia). Unless New Zealand plays the anti-terror game to the satisfaction of the likes of the coalition of the wiling we could find things like travel to those countries more restrictive, access to those markets meeting greater obstacles, work visas and academic exchanges diminishing.

    I imagine New Zealand's 'anti-terror' activities have a way to go before they come close to parity with the likes of the U.S., Britain or Australia..., if you want to be in the gang you need to learn to behave like the other gang members.

    Wellington • Since Oct 2007 • 12 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford,

    I have enough faith in our justuce system to give them the beneift of the doubt.

    The detainees are looking at a possible two years in remand prison. I'd have thought the benefit of doubt could be better placed.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4341 posts Report Reply

  • merc,

    Not to mention that they will never fly/ travel free from circumspection again, ever, beyond reasonable doubt or not.
    Passport please sir, oh I see, please come with us.

    Since Dec 2006 • 2471 posts Report Reply

  • Deborah,

    I was going for 500 posts and 15,000 views -- got the latter closing in on the former ...

    Cracked it, Russell.

    New Lynn • Since Nov 2006 • 1445 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford,

    Cracked it, Russell.

    And there was me thinking it was all about human rights issues.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4341 posts Report Reply

  • johnno,

    The photographing of people at various events and roadblocks is not new. The police regularly record people at demonstrations. Last year the Christchurch police ran a large anti-boyracer operation at Hasketts Road. They photographed every vehicle they stopped (about 100) at the checkpoint, along with the driver. I'm not entirely sure, but I presume there is no compulsion to allowing the police to photograph you.

    The suppresion of all aspects of the bail hearing in Wellington was done in front of the accused, their lawyers, the media, police, the crown prosecutor, and the judge. The informant (the Police) made submissions to the judge regarding the need for continued bail. The defendants (through their lawyers) had the opportunity to offer counter arguements. The judge made his decision to deny bail. While all reasons were suppressed, the judge did make his judgement in front of the assembled media (who were also privy to all submissions) in the knowledge that his judgement will eventually be made public, and if the media detected anything that had the slightest whiff of injustice, he would be exposed accordingly. The defendants' lawyers also had the right of appeal of the judge's decisions, and to my knowledge, they haven't as yet.

    wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 111 posts Report Reply

  • 3410,

    re: Having faith in the justice system.

    Sadly, I don't, much. I've been involved in two trials in my time; one where I was on a minor charge, another where a friend was.

    In both cases officers of the Police lied to the court - I know, because I was, in each case, present at both the incident from which the charge arose and the trial - and in both cases the judge accepted the (uncorroborated) police version of events without question.

    I'm not trying to draw any particular connection with the current cases but that's my experience, so make of it what you will.

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 2618 posts Report Reply

  • Deborah,

    I was going for 500 posts and 15,000 views -- got the latter closing in on the former ...

    __Cracked it, Russell.__

    And there was me thinking it was all about human rights issues.

    I think it's okay to enjoy the process while remaining deeply concerned about the content.

    New Lynn • Since Nov 2006 • 1445 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford,

    Peter Willams QC doesn't have Blind faith in the judicial system ether. The Howard league points out that the judicial system is far from fare.

    Of all cases involving a remand in custody during 1998, less than half (47%) received a sentence of imprisonment. (Spier,Ibid.p.91). This outcome suggests that prior to the introduction of the Bail Act 2000, the courts were already overusing the option to remand in custody.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4341 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford,

    I think it's okay to enjoy the process while remaining deeply concerned about the content.

    Absolutely, I just need more practice at literal humor.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4341 posts Report Reply

  • Neil Morrison,

    Maybe it's the other way around. The police cannot go public with all the information because they are on the back foot....

    Well maybe it is and maybe it isn't. But on principle one would expect the police, well the prosecution actually, to wait till the trial.

    But you're position is they are damned if the do and damned if they don't. Spill now, to satisfy our Democratic Right To Know, but if you do we'll be the first to accuse of perverting the course of justice.

    Since Nov 2006 • 932 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson,

    Does anyone know when we will actually get information? Or care to hazard some informed guesses? How long are these remanded guys actually going to have to sit there?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10641 posts Report Reply

  • kmont,

    Does anyone know when we will actually get information? Or care to hazard some informed guesses? How long are these remanded guys actually going to have to sit there?

    Yeah, I am not comfortable with two years and I think the public deserves a timeframe.

    wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 485 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    Unless New Zealand plays the anti-terror game to the satisfaction of the likes of the coalition of the wiling we could find things like travel to those countries more restrictive, access to those markets meeting greater obstacles, work visas and academic exchanges diminishing.

    Oh, come on... this might be a rather distressing reality check, but could it be possible that immigration and trade policy in the United States might be a little more influenced by their domestic electoral cycle than anything else? I can rattle off at least ten Coalition-held marginal seats in Oz - and a good chunk of the Democratic majority in the House - where being too "liberal" on that score is electoral suicide. New Zealand is not the centre of the universe - get over it.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Sonic,

    "Take a "side" if you must. I'm just trying to work out what I think. It would be easier to eff and blind about state terror, I know."

    Not that I've eff'd and blinded about anything but.

    The fact is people are sitting in jail tonight and there is a demonstration on saturday to at least try and get them bailed.

    You have the choice to go in it or not. I would argue that public pressure will be the key factor on these people getting to rejoin their friends and families.

    I'm not trying to fall out with anyone, however sometimes politics stops being an abstract game of working out what you think and becomes a matter of taking sides.

    This, sadly, is one of those times.

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 102 posts Report Reply

  • Sonic,

    Criag, imagine the NZ cops at international anti-terrorism conferences for the last few years?

    "So buddy what operations are you guys running"?

    "Well there are these highly dangerous snail lovers in a place called Happy Valley"

    Suddenly they think they have a Maori+Anti-capitalist eco-terror fusion plot, that is planning to kill George Bush!

    It's an early Chrismas for the Anti-terror squad, phone calls to Washington, faxes from London, a seat at the table with the big boys.

    Pity when it all turns to custard, but nice while it lasted.

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 102 posts Report Reply

  • Michael Fitzgerald,

    12 Noon Saturday 27Oct07 there is prob something happening close to you.

    http://www.indymedia.org.nz/

    Since May 2007 • 631 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford,

    As long as these detainees, terrorist suspects, violators of firearms licensing laws, a doper and some guy with a psychiatric disorder remain remanded in custody without explanation; The more sided the public views, the more difficult the actual trial.

    Because the TSA was used, the media have sold copy.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4341 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    Lordy... looks like Te Quaeda don't have to do a damn thing - Mongrel Mallard and Testosterone Tau are going to kill each other first...

    Truth is not only stranger than fiction, you couldn't make it up without being packed off for a psych evaluation...

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • rodgerd,

    I'm not trying to fall out with anyone

    Then perhaps you need to stop chanelling George Dubya's "You're with us or against us".

    I would argue that public pressure will be the key factor on these people getting to rejoin their friends and families.

    Not unless you want politicians overriding the judicial process arbitarily. In which case, frankly, it is you who is leading New Zealand down the path to facism, not the cops.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 512 posts Report Reply

  • rodgerd,

    Ooh, I can play that game! It's not as though the New Zealand Police Force has ever made a mistake, planted evidence, exceeded its powers, or failed to convict either.

    And you'd be making a reasonable point. Which is why we have all these processes to try and dig such stuff out. Nation of laws and all that. The rush to lend limitless credulity to the pronouncements of innocence irks me, is all. Not everyone is even in the same ballpark as the very reasonable:

    Personally, I incline to a view, based in the information I have, and I find it a reasonable view. If I hear new information I will change it accordingly.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 512 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Lordy... looks like Te Quaeda don't have to do a damn thing - Mongrel Mallard and Testosterone Tau are going to kill each other first...
    Truth is not only stranger than fiction, you couldn't make it up without being packed off for a psych evaluation...

    It's alright. They've shaken hands and made up now. Because it's not okay ...

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22761 posts Report Reply

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