Hard News: The March for Democracy
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Isn't that what every other museum in the world does?
No idea -- do they?
I think so. The Powerhouse in Sydney (which would have been a better fit, if there is such a thing, insofar as it's a museum of science and technology) withdrew the booking on the same grounds I'm advocating for.
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<i>I think there's no doubt that the USA went to the moon at least once. But there's less certainty that they went as many times as they claim to have done</i>
All of the sites have been photographed by recent lunar orbiters, in enough detail to show footprint trails and wheel tracks from the rovers that were on the later missions.
Of course, any conspiracy theorist will move the goalposts again and say that those pictures are fakes. At which point Craig and I will stage a minimalist performance worthy of Steve Reich in which our heads impact our desks in a rhythm out of phase with each other, producing aesthetically interesting patterns of sound.
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Not really. Someone had to place the laser reflectors there, unless we're now turning it into a debate about extraterrestrial lifeforms capable of taking part in earth-based conspiracy theories.
Um, actually, it could have been done remotely, with unmanned craft. But I don't think it was.
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The technology of the day was more than adequate for tracking the lunar lander . . .
No argument with that, but after watching this version, you kind of wonder what happened to the intelligent people who built it.
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But what defies any rational explanation was how hundreds of people failed to notice that their offices were being wired up for a controlled detonation by a conspiracy that involved hundreds (if not thousands) of people operating in total secrecy and with robot-like precision. Nobody noticed, Steve.
Clearly they were all murdered. Or neuralised. Or kidnapped by Elvis and JFK.
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Not really. Someone had to place the laser reflectors there
Probes? Or is the lunar loonies position that they didn't exist either?
And don't forget the USSR. Does anyone really think they wouldn't have blown it all wide open if the Americans didn't actually get to the moon? The technology of the day was more than adequate for tracking the lunar lander, and there was not a word from the Soviets to suggest that the Americans hadn't made it.
Obviously, they were in on it for Nefarious Communist Purposes of their own. With Elvis and JFK.
Shit, we're missing something. don't we need Templars for it to be a "proper" conspiracy theory?
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The explosion of the burning aviation fuel-air mixture will strip the fire-protective coatings off the steel truss structure of the towers
Especially if, as was explained by three FDNY officers who I saw speak, the coating started off as of far lesser thickness than required. I saw photographs of the trusses where one could make out cross braces at joints, in a couple of cases even make out bolts, beneath sprayed-on fire-protective coating that should've been so heavily applied as to render all joints and detail nothing more than amorphous blobs.
Buildings are complex structures and I can easily imagine the shock of the impacts of collapsing floors at upper levels propagating through the structure to find points of concentration below, causing sudden catastrophic buckling, producing lateral bursts of dust and debris.
Or even driving air down the elevator shafts, blowing open whatever lift lobby doors were still intact. If the central core was good enough for a waterfall of flaming jet fuel to reach ground level, it's certainly good enough for air that's been compressed by a collapsing structure.
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causing sudden catastrophic buckling, producing lateral bursts of dust and debris.
But, Ahaa.
What about the Nanothermite in that dust.
Ducks back under bridge because the goats are coming.
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The nanothermite that wasn't actually found and that we're not even sure actually exists? It is a puzzle, I'll give you that.
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He should know that shockwaves propagate at the speed of sound in their medium (sound is a series of shockwaves after all), which is much faster than gravity-induced acceleration. Buildings are complex structures and I can easily imagine the shock of the impacts of collapsing floors at upper levels propagating through the structure to find points of concentration below, causing sudden catastrophic buckling, producing lateral bursts of dust and debris.
Certainly seems that way from the numerous Lego towers my son has collapsed recently. Once a collapse starts, all bets are off about how it will fall. What happens at the top will affect all of the structures below.
Naturally I haven't tried creating a collapse that will crumble Lego blocks to dust, so it's not a perfect model, just an observation that not-even-very-complex structures can collapse in unpredictable ways. My favorite was where all of the pieces afterward were in a perfect circle around the base - I can't explain how it happened, somehow the thing fell in a spiral.
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But what defies any rational explanation was how hundreds of people failed to notice that their offices were being wired up for a controlled detonation by a conspiracy that involved hundreds (if not thousands) of people operating in total secrecy and with robot-like precision. Nobody noticed, Steve.
It's easy enough once you realise that the Forces of Darkness have harnessed the power of time travel. Obama's Honolulu birth notices prove that much. And let's not forget the mysterious disappearing Civil War pterodactyl photograph! Clearly, awesome cosmic forces are at work. And it's also no coincidence that time travel just "happens" to be a key plot point in the Warner Brothers TV shows Lost and Felicity, both created by Mission Impossible director and Tom Cruise acquaintance J. J. Abrams. So Elron Hubbard has the tech. Knowing how that tech should be used requires precisely the right number of simultaneous, multiverse viewings of Primer.
So, clearly Witi Ihimaera was onto something.
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At which point Craig and I will stage a minimalist performance worthy of Steve Reich in which our heads impact our desks in a rhythm out of phase with each other, producing aesthetically interesting patterns of sound.
So was it you 2 that bought down building 7? :)
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The nanothermite that wasn't actually found and that we're not even sure actually exists? It is a puzzle, I'll give you that.
A-ha! A solution to my problem!
The Templars vaccumed it up with nanovacuumcleaners, and took it away.
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Shit, we're missing something. don't we need Templars for it to be a "proper" conspiracy theory?
Don't forget the Trilateral Commission and the Club of Rome. They all hold regular meetings at the secret Illuminati base in Area 51.
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Don't forget Veridian Dynamics -- they're extra evil!
Better Off Ted: C4. Sunday. 8pm. Doesn't suck arse.
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The trouble with the 9/11 conspiracy theories is that there are actually a lot of unanswered questions around 'who knew what and when' on that day. There was an awful lot of post-attack duck-and-covering going on within the US establishment, and the official investigation and report was actually pretty feeble. The vacuum that this feeble official response created has left enough unanswered questions for Gage, the 'Loose Change' mob and other idiots to seed all sorts of frankly vile and distasteful crap* from.
Which has had the effect of almost utterly obscuring the serious points that need addressing. If I was of a paranoid frame of mind, there's enough material in that fact iteself to make me start wondering who pulls the strings of these guys....
In relation to the unanswered questions, we have this, for example, from this article:
By the time the Jersey Girls travelled to FBI headquarters in June 2002 they seemed to know more than their official counterparts. Sheehy described Breitweiser's unrelenting interrogation of senior FBI agents that day: "I don't understand, with all the warnings about the possibilities of al-Qaida using planes as weapons, and the Phoenix memo from one of your own agents warning that Osama bin Laden was sending operatives to this country for flight-school training, why didn't you check out flight schools before September 11?"
"Do you know how many flight schools there are in the US? Thousands," a senior agent protested.
"Wait," Breitweiser persisted. "How is it that a few hours after the attacks ... FBI agents showed up at Embry-Riddle flight school in Florida where some of the terrorists trained?"
"We got lucky," was the reply.
Breitweiser then asked the agent how the FBI had known exactly which cash machine would yield a videotape of Mohammed Atta, the leader of the attacks. The agent got some facts confused, then changed his story. When Breitweiser wouldn't be pacified by evasive answers, the senior agent parried, "What are you getting at?"
"I think you had open investigations before September 11 on some of the people responsible for the terrorist attacks," she said.
"We did not," the agent said unequivocally.
A month later, before the scathing congressional report on intelligence failures was released, Breitweiser and the three other mums from New Jersey learned that, in fact, the FBI had open investigations on 14 individuals who had contact with the hijackers while they were in the US.
[my emphasis added in bold]
More info on the Jersey Girls here.
Don't tell me I've been missing the shareholders' meetings.
Too bad for you. We all got our ponies at the last one.
*Gio - thank you for your moving and eloquent article on Gage's Te Papa presentation. It reminded me exactly how I feel about these lunatics.
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Via that Peter Griffin article:
Gage: There are psychological barriers to reexamining what we thought was true.
Hill: It’s a psychological barrier against complete irrationality.
<3
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Certainly seems that way from the numerous Lego towers my son has collapsed recently. Once a collapse starts, all bets are off about how it will fall. What happens at the top will affect all of the structures below.
Naturally I haven't tried creating a collapse that will crumble Lego blocks to dust, so it's not a perfect model, just an observation that not-even-very-complex structures can collapse in unpredictable ways. My favorite was where all of the pieces afterward were in a perfect circle around the base - I can't explain how it happened, somehow the thing fell in a spiral.
Another good point. It's not as if there's a whole heap of data lying around which can be used to predict how skyscrapers will react when large jets are flown into them, given that it's happened in real life exactly twice....
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It's not as if there's a whole heap of data lying around which can be used to predict how skyscrapers will react
Including WTC7. I love how some of the truthers say "no building has ever collapsed from uncontrolled fires". Well yes, because no other building has been allowed to burn for hours and hours on end without any attempt to put it out.
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It's not as if there's a whole heap of data lying around which can be used to predict how skyscrapers will react when large jets are flown into them, given that it's happened in real life exactly twice....
Hey, at least the fact that they both collapsed in the same way shows that the effect was repeatable. +1 scientific method.
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@Rich: Well, I haven't been following the stories, but I'll offer an explanation: prior to 9-11, the FBI were lazy, cheap, or both. Thousands of flight schools in the US? Too much effort.
When 9-11 happened, they panicked, and were desperate to show themselves as on the job, so they rushed out agents. They got lucky by turning up at one relevant school in a few hours, but maybe they had the ability to get to any school within a day or two. So "lucky" could have been "today, not tomorrow".
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Via that Peter Griffin article:
I love his work on Family Guy.
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John - the point is that the feds were following these guys before 9/11. The feds thought they were enough of a risk to keeps tabs on, and they knew they were visiting flight schools, including the actual school they got their training from.
They just flat-out lied about it after the attacks.
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Conspiracy theories are real!
Just not the ones that appear in Uncensored.
-WMDs and Iraqs role in 911 - official line from USA/UK is the greatest conspiracy theory ever sold.
-911 was the MacGyver of Terrorist, We don't need to take our shoes off at the Airport, just no knives please.
As such I'm willing to forgive those who know they're being lied to, coming up with the wrong answer.
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I was thinking about this on my way home, and for the life of me I can't see why a tall building collapsing from the top down would be expected to do anything other than fall pretty much straight down.
For the top parts of the building to do anything else, they would either need to pivot away from the rest of the building, in which case it would be hard for the remaining parts of the tower to collapser), or be obviously and explosively destroyed, so that the debris was launched with a substantial horizontal velocity -- since all the subsequent acceleration (as it fell) would be straight down.
The essence of the swindle here seems to be when this clown says "just sayin', isn't it odd that the towers fell vertically" when in fact it would be substantially odder for them to fall in any other fashion, given the nature of the initial collisions.
(I am currently composing a final exam that will cover, among other things, Newton's laws, but it would be tasteless to set this as a problem).
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