Hard News: The newest neocon catastrophe
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Saakashvili is a brilliant and compelling speaker. He is articulate, fluent in English, persuasive and pro-Western. He reminds me a little of Jason Schwartzman in the Wes Anderson films Rushmore and the Darjeeling Ltd.
I have had some sympathy for Georgia because they view the separatist regions of Abkhazia and South Ossetia as a domestic issue. However there is considerable evidence that Israel and the Americans have been rearming the Georgian military which is something that Russia is evidently very angry about.
Russia is also very concerned about NATO encroachment on its Western border from Poland, Hungary, Romania, Turkey right through to Georgia into what it thinks is its sphere of influence. A kind of strategic encirclement, if you like.
But Russia's response in Georgia has been terrifying and I can't felt thinking back to what the Russian military did in Chechenya. Ruthless is the word that comes to mind.
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Someone should tell McCain that the concept of Christendom as a defensive unit died out around, oh, the High Middle Ages, with the end of the major crusading period.
Oh, wait. He probably thinks this is a crusade.
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He reminds me a little of Jason Schwartzman in the Wes Anderson films Rushmore and the Darjeeling Ltd.
That's probably gonna be McCain's next rationale for giving him military support.
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In another victory for the Bloggers, my first understanding of what is happeneing came from No Right Turn, not from the TV news. (no surprises there, I know)
To John Campbell's credit, last night he showed the contrasting way the conflict is being reported in the US versus the UK, which is quite striking.
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It's worth pointing out that Lindsay Beyerstein broke the Scheunemann story over a month ago. I have been waiting to see if TPM would credit her, but if they did, I missed it.
I read her site with great interest - I imagine we'll see a lot of her in a few years.
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He reminds me a little of Jason Schwartzman in the Wes Anderson films Rushmore...
It should be noted the Max Fischer, while charismatic, is also deeply deluded and... kind of officious and nutty. This does not bode well.
God I love that movie. :)
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I know this might be a little hard for the American puditocracy to swallow (especially in an election year) but is there any possibility that, in this case, the world doesn't actually revolve around the District of Columbia?
I'm not saying the Washington K Street culture isn't the kind of parasite that shouldn't be seen outside medical textbooks, but I think there's other things going on here.
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It would be interesting to see how greater Europe sees this issue given their clear dependence on gas and pipework from the east.
That there is sucspicion of Israel and USA arming Georgia reeks of - lets fight a war in somone leses back yard.
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I have had some sympathy for Georgia because they view the separatist regions of Abkhazia and South Ossetia as a domestic issue.
For sure. And as we have seen in China, keeping separatist regions in the fold is a messy business. But South Ossetia has been effectively self-governing for about 15 years, and it was only last year that Saakashvili set up a provisional administration of former separatists for his own government to negotiate with. And then, last Friday, he invades and starts shelling residential areas on the flimsy prtext that Russian planes had breached Georgia's airspace.
Something seems to have gone horribly wrong here. Did Saakashvili think contributing 2000 troops to the Iraq project meant he'd get military backing if he made a move?
The whole thing has necon teh stoopid written all over it.
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Someone should tell McCain that the concept of Christendom as a defensive unit died out around, oh, the High Middle Ages, with the end of the major crusading period.
It was actually when the Ottoman's went to town and invaded europe. Something that McCain should known, since they were the reason Columbus went west liking for a route to China.
That there is sucspicion of Israel and USA arming Georgia reeks of - lets fight a war in somone leses back yard.
I thought that was the reason that the USA arms Israel?
Does this mean that Georgia is arming someone else?
And so on? -
Obama's response wasn't particularly heartening either. His first statement was wishy-washy rubbish which just showed he had little clue what was going on, until 3 days later he simply matches McCain's "tough talk" on Russia...
Disappointing lack of critical thought. I suppose US politics would still always demand a "blame Russia" response though... -
The TVNZ news last night on this was just pathetic - it was Olympics are fun! ... oh, and there's a war somewhere...
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Mark James of The Exile(d) has a very interesting backgrounder on this story.
He notes , among other things, that McCain called for an emergency Security Council resolution -- after Russia had unsuccessfully called for exactly the same thing. The Russian bid was blocked by the US and Britain over wording that called for both sides to "renounce violence".
Also, this is the way Russian people are seeing things:
On Thursday, following intense Georgian shelling and katyusha rocketing into Tskhinvali, refugees streamed out of South Ossetia telling reporters that the Georgians had completely leveled entire villages and most of Tskhinvali, leaving “piles of corpses” in the streets, over 1,000 by some counts. Among the dead are at least ten Russian peacekeepers, who fell after their base was attacked by Georgian forces. Reports also say that Georgian forces destroyed a hotel where Russian journalists were staying.
James also notes a degree of planning indicated by Georgia's finance minister pre-arranging a conference call to international investors. Over-reaching is hardly the word.
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Something seems to have gone horribly wrong here. Did Saakashvili think contributing 2000 troops to the Iraq project meant he'd get military backing if he made a move?
The whole thing has necon teh stoopid written all over it.
Stoopid? Stupid like a Fox! I think the Iraq debacle has shown us that the Neo-cons aren't afraid of breaking a lot of eggs to make a little omelette. How better to wake the sleeping bear than by convincing Georgia to kick Russia in the nuts and see what happens? The NeoCons will acheive their goal: Georgia will be fast-tracked into Nato and US/Nato troops will be on Russia's border to protect another oil pipeline.
It was actually when the Ottoman's went to town and invaded Europe. Something that McCain should known, since ...
... he was there.
Obama's response wasn't particularly heartening either... 3 days later he simply matches McCain's "tough talk" on Russia... I suppose US politics would still always demand a "blame Russia" response though...
Asked and answered. Despite his recent Berlin speech, Obama is running for POTUS not POTW.
The TVNZ news last night on this was just pathetic - it was Olympics are fun! ... oh, and there's a war somewhere...
Yes, I noted that when they gave the 6.30 'highlights' recap they led with the Georgia headline - a shame they didn't manage to lead the actual bulletin with it. Altho' I have a sneaking suspicion you and I are out of step with what the masses wanted to see first.
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I thought that was the reason that the USA arms Israel?
Does this mean that Georgia is arming someone else?
And so on?I guess my rather poorly articulated point is that this is next to Europe, not South America or the Middle East. Europe, where they have enjoyed two world wars and the cold war in the last 100 years. Not a lot of love went down over Iraq. This isn't a great leap forwards for that "special" relationship.
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Stoopid? Stupid like a Fox! I think the Iraq debacle has shown us that the Neo-cons aren't afraid of breaking a lot of eggs to make a little omelette. How better to wake the sleeping bear than by convincing Georgia to kick Russia in the nuts and see what happens? The NeoCons will acheive their goal: Georgia will be fast-tracked into Nato and US/Nato troops will be on Russia's border to protect another oil pipeline.
But isn't it precisely that prospect that has determined the severity of the Russian response?
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It was actually when the Ottoman's went to town and invaded europe. Something that McCain should known, since they were the reason Columbus went west liking for a route to China.
I'd say the Ottoman invasions helped prolong the "Christendom" attitude to some extent; it was when they became allies for some parts of Europe that it was put back under. But "they're Christian, so they're allies" really died all the way back at the capture of Constantinople during the Fourth Crusade. It was an explicit lesson for the Byzantines in The Enemy Of My Enemy Is Totally Not My Friend, Even If He Is Christian.
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Why did Georgia think the Russians weren't gonna hit back?
Putin has his own band of hitler youth. They're carrying the flag with a red back ground and white diagonal cross.
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Am I being too naive (and supportive of improbable conspiracy theories) to think maybe the local history and detail of the lead-up are merely incidental to the "big picture"?
Sometimes I just wonder if it's not just a case of "Shit, the price of oil has stabilized again, where can we push some buttons to fix that?"
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Asked and answered. Despite his recent Berlin speech, Obama is running for POTUS not POTW.
Completely agree - but if you ARE going to comment on a significant international situation, I'd prefer you do with it with thought and understanding.
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The more one pokes around, the more it looks like "stupid and bad" vs "evil".
The Washington response leaves one wondering if this is a case of smart (provoke Russia, gain new perpetual war, retire to lobbying for military contracts, profit!), or really dumb (We're #1! Russia won't dare oppose our proxy!).
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Asked and answered. Despite his recent Berlin speech, Obama is running for POTUS not POTW.
Yep, but wouldn't it be a pleasant change just for once for whoever is POTUS not to have to find ogres to placate some US national desire to have enemies everywhere.
The world is not a Marvel Comic.
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Weirdly, over at The Hive, which normally doesn't get many comments there are lively discussions by people who seem to have a stake in all this. Even comments in what I assume to be Russian?
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Thanks for this topic Russell - it's really informative. No wonder this site wins awards!
John McCain, who yesterday declared "we are all Georgians"...
Another embarrassment to the human race! Where do they find them!
Pity about Obama. Even if he's not standing for President of the World (a position I believe is vacant at the moment) it wouldn't hurt him to read a couple of books by someone who knows where the rest of the world is. Or even to ask someone else to give him a quick breakdown.
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Weirdly, over at The Hive, which normally doesn't get many comments there are lively discussions by people who seem to have a stake in all this. Even comments in what I assume to be Russian?
Freaky!
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