Hard News: The Politics of Absence
523 Responses
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BenWilson, in reply to
I'm inclined to think parties should focus on the party vote and leave the electorates to independents and representatives of purely local coalitions/organisations.
That would cause a major overhang, I think. Labour and National would never let it happen, it dilutes their power too much. Some of the other electoral systems are quite good at generating independent local candidates.
Personally I don't really give a stuff about the local candidates. It's only because they were traditionally how we elected the government, and now have a small influence on that, and more importantly are conveniently located on the same voting paper, that I consistently bother with them. Local body candidates have more genuine influence and interest in what happens to my local area, and the public interest in them is a joke. You've got to be some kind of wonk to actually make an informed decision about them. Which I've got nothing against, it's just not my thing.
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Craig Ranapia, in reply to
Local body candidates have more genuine influence and interest in what happens to my local area, and the public interest in them is a joke. You’ve got to be some kind of wonk to actually make an informed decision about them.
Not so sure about that – constituency work is unglamorous but there are still people out there who have this uncynical belief that their local Member of Parliament (and their electorate agents) know shit and can help. And you know what: The overwhelming majority do, and can more often than not.
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Is anyone else confused about how few National hoardings there are? In Mt Roskill, I've seen one (at my dog park, how rude). In Mangere, there appears to be none.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
Not so sure about that – constituency work is unglamorous but there are still people out there who have this uncynical belief that their local Member of Parliament (and their electorate agents) know shit and can help. And you know what: The overwhelming majority do, and can more often than not.
THIS.
I’ve seen what comes through the front door of a constituency office, and that link is very important. For all that it has been compulsory to mock Judith Tizard for her incorrect views on downloading and and stuff, she and a series of more or less saintly electorate agents helped a lot of people over the years. People do go into those offices looking for help, and good electorate MPs try and make sure they get it.
The idea that that’s not worth the bother, or that Green MPs should only represent a narrow community of interest leaves me cold. The job of representing an actual community, regardless of the various politics of the individuals in it, is something to aspire to.
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Danyl's been busy.
As I said yesterday, I was struck by how this discussion inevitably turned to not just to why Labour are struggling, but what politics would get them out of their rut -- when, as I was trying to explain, it's the sheer political absence of the current climate that's important. Basically, of course it suits Matthew Hooton for it to be about someone being mean to the Mad Butcher.
And now Danyl goes and makes a joke that says it better than all my hand-wringing.
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Sacha, in reply to
I'm not sure what your family is paying attention to, but I'd say that's a more heroic conclusion than mine :)
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Sacha, in reply to
No doubt the prevailing climate is fluff-focused. How do you explain the Greens' opinion poll totals rising while Labour's declines? What are they doing differently or better?
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Sacha, in reply to
representing an actual community
There you go again. Place is not the only or strongest criteria for a community. Ask any of those you'll be focused on tomorrow night.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
There you go again. Place is not the only or strongest criteria for a community. Ask any of those you’ll be focused on tomorrow night.
I didn't say place was the only criterion for a community. I do object to the idea that representing an electorate is irrelevant or not worth the bother, and I think I've explained why. It's the poor, elderly and disabled to come into electorate offices looking for help.It's good that there is someone there to try and provide it.
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Craig Ranapia, in reply to
Is anyone else confused about how few National hoardings there are? In Mt Roskill, I’ve seen one (at my dog park, how rude). In Mangere, there appears to be none.
Not really. Rank speculation here, but it could just be there’s been a decision made not to get them up until after the RWC is over. And when I was working Wellington Central you just knew that hoardings were going to be vandalised so quickly (often with abusive graffiti you really wouldn’t want exposed to public view for any longer than strictly necessary) you wanted to leave yourself with coverage for the last week.
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Sacha, in reply to
I didn't say place was the only criterion for a community.
I'd avoid words like "actual".
irrelevant or not worth the bother
I understand the decision made by the Greens historically but I'd say it's pragmatic rather than principled. Is someone saying otherwise?
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JLM, in reply to
I didn’t say place was the only criterion for a community. I do object to the idea that representing an electorate is irrelevant or not worth the bother, and I think I’ve explained why. It’s the poor, elderly and disabled to come into electorate offices looking for help.It’s good that there is someone there to try and provide it.
From my experience in a town with at least four MPs (5 for a while if you count Hilary) only two of whom have electorate seats, all the MPs have offices and do constituent work. I'm not sure that citizens distinguish between who holds the electorate or not, they go to who can help
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Joe Wylie, in reply to
. . . it’s pragmatic rather than principled.
When you have a burning local issue, as is happening with Canterbury’s rolled-over red zone residents, the Greens’ lack of interest certainly makes it look that way. Six years ago the party’s Christchurch Central candidate did letter box drops stressing her connection with local issues. Currently they seem bent on projecting themselves as being too shiny to get involved
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Russell Brown, in reply to
I’d avoid words like “actual”.
Whatever. Representing a place, then. There is a real and genuine duty in representing a community of varied interests. It's what we expect any MP from any party to do.
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Carol Stewart, in reply to
Quite. Say what you like about Nick Smith, he's done that very well in Nelson.
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Craig Ranapia, in reply to
The idea that that’s not worth the bother, or that Green MPs should only represent a narrow community of interest leaves me cold. The job of representing an actual community, regardless of the various politics of the individuals in it, is something to aspire to.
Quite - and to do some cold hard electoral math, never underestimate the power of good old school "kiss every hand, shake every baby, crash the opening of every envelope" campaigning in attracting party votes. As I've said before, if National loses North Shore and Labour loses the Dunedin seats the Apocalypse is pretty fraking nigh. But I'm pretty sure Michael Woodhouse is perfectly well aware that while he was never expected to win Dunedin North the 9,692 party votes he received went a very long way to securing his place in Parliament from a marginal ranking.
ETA: Or for that matter, I don't think I was the only person surprised (pleasantly in my case, though YMMV) in 2005 when Jo Goodhew defeated Jim Sutton in Aoraki. I have whanau who'd never voted National in their lives, but meeting Goodhew made a difference.
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Sacha, in reply to
Sure.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
When you have a burning local issue, as is happening with Canterbury’s rolled-over red zone residents, the Greens’ lack of interest certainly makes it look that way. Six years ago the party’s Christchurch Central candidate did letter box drops stressing her connection with local issues. Currently they seem bent on projecting themselves as being too shiny too get involved.
I was talking to someone yesterday -- not involved with any political party -- who remarked on how motivated and organised young local Labour activists in Christchurch seem to be. You could certainly put some of that down to the remarkable work the Christchurch Labour MPs have done since the earthquakes -- it's a holding-to-account role where an Opposition MP is actually of more use than a government one -- but my friend also had the impression there was something similar going on in Dunedin.
I think this touches on the urban-rural divide Tom noted upthread.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
Quite. Say what you like about Nick Smith, he’s done that very well in Nelson.
Sometimes to a fault, but yes.
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Sacha, in reply to
Whatever
My professional advice is worth precisely what you paid for it. :)
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The job of representing an actual community, regardless of the various politics of the individuals in it, is something to aspire to.
So is being a philosopher emperor, but that doesn't mean it's a good way to organize society.
It's the poor, elderly and disabled to come into electorate offices looking for help.It's good that there is someone there to try and provide it.
It is, but something about it strikes me as feudal, with a queue of oppressed peasants applying to the Laird's mercy, because the landlord's taxes are too high. Sure, local MPs are powerful people, but why go to them in particular? There's hundreds of powerful people in every electorate. There's institutions for nearly every kind of complaint. There's all sorts of charitable organizations. There's the council, which organizes most of the local services.There's the representatives of the other political parties who are also powerful people. It seems to me that people go to their MP because they can, and if they couldn't, they'd find some other way. It's not in itself a big justification for their existence. It's like some kind of random safety valve, available to such people as have time for such an inefficient approach. I don't see why it has such an enormous influence over our political system, to the extent that half of the people voting for state legislation are drawn from the pool of these people.
I'm not really convinced either way, though. I guess it just seems weird to me that never once in my life have I spoken to anyone who is poor, elderly or disabled who has actually got anything useful from approaching the local MP. Considering the influence they wield, I'd have thought it would have been a common occurrence to hear that someone had achieved something actually useful to them in that way. They're a solution looking for a problem. They'll always find a problem, always be able to point to something good they did, in much the same way that the King of Thailand can, on the odd occasion that he shows clemency to some prisoner or other, applying to have their sentence reduced. But that doesn't really justify their existence.
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Sacha, in reply to
Currently they seem bent on projecting themselves as being too shiny to get involved
I wouldn't rule out 'too under-resourced to get involved' either.
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JLM, in reply to
And the Out of Office Parliamentary Services have the best acronym ever!
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Sacha, in reply to
Sure, local MPs are powerful people, but why go to them in particular?
Electorate MPs and their staff do a great job.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
From my experience in a town with at least four MPs (5 for a while if you count Hilary) only two of whom have electorate seats, all the MPs have offices and do constituent work. I’m not sure that citizens distinguish between who holds the electorate or not, they go to who can help
That's really encouraging to hear. I think the practice of list MPs effectively adopting an electorate is a good one.
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