Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: The positive option of Red Peak

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  • Ian Dalziel,

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    I thought I’d better check out what these Red Peak Nazi sentry boxes looked like, only to find someone is already using our Koru flag as a re-use prevention watermark!
    source

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7939 posts Report Reply

  • Chris Waugh,

    I was supportive of changing the flag, but this process, and the options presented, Red Peak included..... no.

    We were in Johnsonville Mall last Saturday and my daughter noticed the Rugby World Cup decorations. She pointed at a flag and said, "Look, Daddy! The Australian flag!" A couple of minutes later she pointed at another flag and said, "Look, Daddy! That's the New Zealand flag!" Four and a half years old and she can easily spot the difference between those two flags and knows which represents her nation - so what's John Key's excuse? I was tempted to do a rerun with my wife videoing and post it online, but the moment had passed. So there's my vote decided.

    Wellington • Since Jan 2007 • 2401 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to Stephen Judd,

    Maybe I’m an old fuddy duddy. I still don’ t really approve of postal, either.

    Its not unheard of for the head of the house, house keeper or other control freak - to take care of all the postal votes. Imagine making a complaint to the police about something like that.

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4411 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    only to find someone is already using our Koru flag as a re-use prevention watermark!

    Ha!

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22807 posts Report Reply

  • Hilary Stace,

    By the way I nominate Red Peak for the 2015 Public Address Word of the Year. If Kirkaldies can open its (last ever) Christmas shop in September, I can nominate something after only 9 months of a 12 month year.

    Wgtn • Since Jun 2008 • 3213 posts Report Reply

  • Tom Semmens,

    *Ahem*

    I am pretty sure that is the end of any talk of "Red Peak"....

    Sevilla, Espana • Since Nov 2006 • 2214 posts Report Reply

  • izogi, in reply to Tom Semmens,

    I am pretty sure that is the end of any talk of “Red Peak"….

    *sigh* Yeah, probably.

    I noticed that and I guess I was concerned for a moment. Then I wondered if this is something that anyone globally is going to notice or care about besides New Zealanders who are paranoid about being mis-perceived by someone else's manipulation of their flag. Is it?

    Wellington • Since Jan 2007 • 1139 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Tom Semmens,

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    I am pretty sure that is the end of any talk of “Red Peak"….

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22807 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Tom Semmens,

    the lucky country...?*

    *Ahem*

    ...an enduring symbol of mankind
    the recent perverted use of which
    does not diminish its rich heritage
    among more enlightened cultures

    * ...the Sanskrit term svastika, meaning any lucky or auspicious object, and in particular a mark made on persons and things to denote auspiciousness, or any piece of luck or well-being.

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7939 posts Report Reply

  • Tom Semmens, in reply to Russell Brown,

    Yes, but yours involves cutting up and repositioning various bits of a Union Jack to produce a rather sad looking version of a Swastika,

    Wheres simply strategically placing four red peak flags produces a very clear swastika.

    I never liked the red peak flag for the simple reason I dislike chevrons on anything except Heraldic devices and Spartan shields (actually a Lambda, for Lacedaemonian). This demonstrates why.

    Sevilla, Espana • Since Nov 2006 • 2214 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to Paul Brislen,

    The whole thing reminds of nothing so much as one of those interminable corporate sessions where a committee of well-meaning amateurs tries desperately to come up with a mission statement and in the end produces a trite piece of pap that nobody can muster up enough energy to object to.

    Agreed. The "Spark" logo or Kraps as we like to call it comes to mind and is exactly what we figured had happened. The relatively new TV program "House of Lies" comes to mind also but that crew, not so amateur.

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • st ephen,

    I think he did it in a desperate attempt to save face...

    Yeah, nah. Red Peak is very popular with people who hate John Key and the National Party, and quite popular amongst designers and intellectuals and "experts". It is massively unpopular with "mainstream New Zealanders" - just read the comments on MSM and social media. They are incredulous that anyone sees any merit in Red Peak for any purpose whatsoever, and deeply resent being told that they have crap taste for loving Lockwood's silver ferns. John Key is smug - not desperate. He knows that Red Peak will be utterly trounced in the referendum.
    Unfortunately the 'buzz' created for Red Peak by urban liberals has ensured that it will never be our flag - just like Hundertwasser's flag and Tino Rangatiratanga, it's a symbol of division, not unity.

    dunedin • Since Jul 2008 • 254 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to izogi,

    Semaphore play – talking flags

    …if this is something that anyone globally is going to notice or care about besides New Zealanders who are paranoid about being mis-perceived by someone else’s manipulation of their flag.
    Is it?

    The Independent
    and
    BBC
    The Guardian
    But the Brits have ‘skin in the game’, as it were, I guess…

    it makes the Australian’s blog

    I’m also thinking that for 5% of the population (thereabouts) the Red Peak flag will just be 3 similarly toned Triangles – I have trouble enough defining between the Black and Blue with my aging rods and cones…
    (same for all the flags bar the krappy koru one, really)

    S’peak’ing of ‘chevrons’ I see Z Energy is buying Caltex

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7939 posts Report Reply

  • David Hood,

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    Red Peak would lead to chaos. It is obvious.

    Dunedin • Since May 2007 • 1445 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel,

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    One of The Guardian commenters pointed out the Industrial Design Council of Australia's 1958 logo...
    so it does have a design pedigree...

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7939 posts Report Reply

  • steven crawford, in reply to st ephen,

    Agree, it would have been better to have left the National Government tidy up that pile of plastic crap, they manufactured.

    Thank you evangelical Green Party for calling theater; look over here at us, we have this other devine popular thing, that makes us look more grown up than the Labour Party :-(

    Atlantis • Since Nov 2006 • 4411 posts Report Reply

  • izogi, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    Thanks. I'm not a subscriber to The Australian, but so far the others just seem to be newswire adaptations or reports describing NZ's politically charged paranoia about itself, as opposed to international outrage of the design which NZ's adding to the list.

    I'd be keen to know if real people globally would even notice or care about NZ having a flag which, for those with a suitable imagination, could be perceived as a quarter of a swastika. Are we going to be afraid of straight lines next?

    Wellington • Since Jan 2007 • 1139 posts Report Reply

  • Tom Semmens,

    My view is the only flag popular enough to have stood a chance against the Blue ensign – the silver fern “black flag” – was disqualified for the most trivial reasons. None of the other designs have the same emotional ’ooomph” as the silver fern black flag.

    Perhaps we need to step back a bit and adopt a suck-it-and-see strategy of adopting the silver ferm flag as an official alternative flag to the blue ensign when been flown as a jack on a RNZN warship and as a military flag (after all, the silver fern on black was first widely used to represent NZ troops in the Boer war) alternative to the blue ensign for armed forces use in general, much like the RN white ensign is exclusively a military flag or the (now discouraged) Japanese rising sun flag. That way, we get to use the silver fern black flag when we are feeling patriotic and proud (or xenophobic and disliking of all foreign devils according to taste) at sports fixtures or when our armed forces are in action against sundry enemies.

    Over time, it will replace the blue ensign for more and more uses, or it will not and fall into disuse.

    Sevilla, Espana • Since Nov 2006 • 2214 posts Report Reply

  • TracyMac,

    Yeah, I'm sure many iwi are loving the fact their niho taniwha patterns are being compared with a paint job on a German Wehrmacht (not Nazi, ffs) box.

    Nice exercise in an association fallacy. What was someone saying yesterday about writing for The Sun ? Why don't we bring out the pic of the princesses doing their Nazi salutes while we're at it? Oh wait, they're high Tories, and that type here want to keep that wonderful symbol of colonialism.

    Canberra, West Island • Since Nov 2006 • 701 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to David Hood,

    Ichthys and Scratchy...

    Red Peak would lead to chaos. It is obvious.

    ..that CH looks suspiciously like the ancient underground symbol for Christianity...

    'Flag face' may have legs but isn't as nifty as Blair Parkes' excellent 'Brick Face' to my way of thinking...
    ;- )

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7939 posts Report Reply

  • st ephen, in reply to TracyMac,

    dunedin • Since Jul 2008 • 254 posts Report Reply

  • David Hood, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    like the ancient underground symbol for Christianity…

    That's a good point, three Red Peak flags make a Christianity symbol, 4 make a swastika. Is New Zealand First comparing Christians to Nazis as they are closer to the flag?

    Dunedin • Since May 2007 • 1445 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen,

    I personally don't like red Peak. To me it says nothing about New Zealand. That it is at least different to the other four is a plus but the whole process has given us 5 bad choices from a list of 40 average choices

    I'll vote to keep our current flag.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 4458 posts Report Reply

  • Tom Semmens,

    A flag serves two functions, as an emotional statement of nationalistic identity and as a political statement of unity. It is amazing to me that so far in this “debate” we’ve managed to not once mention the primary role of flags as nationalist vehicles and/or political statements. No wonder we keep ending up with feeble corporate logos, anaemic designs befitting an anaemic debate.

    A flag makes no sense as something to be concerned about unless you accept that it is a symbol of who and what we are and what the realities of our cultural and political values might be. That is why this debate is so hollow. No one is going to say out loud that the vast majority of NZers will not countenance any design with a heavy Maori influence because that would raise questions about the complete disconnect between the elite and the wider population on the matter of the place and importance or otherwise of Maori in a modern New Zealand. No one wants to say out loud they hate the silver fern black flag because they regard it as symbolic of a bunch of redneck ignoramuses who love rugby to much and they don’t want a bar of that NZ. And no one wants to say that stuff because no one can be bothered with the shit storm it’ll stir up if they do. Which tells me there is no real appetite for change.

    So we end up with the curious amnesia of this hollow debate divorced from any sort of political or cultural context. If you want a metaphor for John Key, then I guess this ill-thought out, ego-driven, vacuous, and frivolously poll driven flag debate is as good as any.

    The whole thing really is a grim joke.

    Sevilla, Espana • Since Nov 2006 • 2214 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Tom Semmens,

    rumbled still skin...

    If you want a metaphor for John Key, then I guess this ill-thought out, ego-driven, vacuous, and frivolous flag debate is as good as any.

    He is spinning straw into gold!
    (or so he thinks...)

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7939 posts Report Reply

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