Hard News: The Wellington Cables
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It's a damn shame all that stuff about various other people's sexual exploits turned up in the first 0.01% of the Cablegate documents to be released, then.
Now that's a fair point. Well taken.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
Why are we even bother with a trial then? Can't we just move to sentencing?
Could you manage even a little "ugh" over the way these women have been violated by people who think they're freedom fighters?
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Simon Grigg, in reply to
Except, as the Guardian reported, the same Swedish law that allows suspects to be placed in custody allows obliges the system to deal with the matter with great dispatch -- like, two weeks.
The stumbling block is that he needs to get to Sweden to benefit from Swedish law. We already know that this extradition to Sweden, regardless of what happens on Tuesday, could take years even without an appeal to the European Court.
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giovanni tiso, in reply to
Could you manage even a little "ugh" over the way these women have been violated by people who think they're freedom fighters?
I'm on record, personally.
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Craig Ranapia, in reply to
Why are we even bother with a trial then? Can't we just move to sentencing?
Just popping outside to head-desk the patio table. Be back in a minute.
The stumbling block is that he needs to get to Sweden to benefit from Swedish law.
And since he thinks he's the blameless victim of a CIA honeytrap baited by Pussy Galore and Plenty O'Toole, I guess it wouldn't really matter anyway. One could be hopelessly naive and suggest the extradition proceedings would have been unnecessary if he'd returned to Sweden when asked.
And why wouldn't Assange want to do so, when his Swedish lawyer is all over the media claiming he's seen evidence proving his client is the victim of a pair of lying slappers with "secret agendas"?
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Russell Brown, in reply to
The stumbling block is that he needs to get to Sweden to benefit from Swedish law. We already know that this extradition to Sweden, regardless of what happens on Tuesday, could take years even without an appeal to the European Court.
I'd actually hope his lawyers are at least investigating the possibility of an agreement for him to go back to Sweden without further jeopardy.
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Simon Grigg, in reply to
I'd be amazed if he's extradited from Sweden to the USA.
I agree, but I find the likelihood that the UK would hand him over under fresh warrants for extradition far less amazing.
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giovanni tiso, in reply to
And since he thinks he's the blameless victim of a CIA honeytrap baited by Pussy Galore and Plenty O'Toole
Can you remind me when it was that Assange suggested the two women were acting on behalf of the CIA?
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Simon Grigg, in reply to
Can you remind me when it was that Assange suggested the two women were acting on behalf of the CIA?
And I've found denials of a CIA link from at least two of his lawyers.
The third, as far as I can can see, talks of a 'honeytrap' without such CIA specifics which seem to have been added by others after the fact.
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Off to see The Fall soon. Thanks for the argument, all. I did feel one was warranted.
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Che Tibby, in reply to
his Swedish lawyer is all over the media claiming he’s seen evidence proving his client is the victim of a pair of lying slappers with “secret agendas”?
just for the record, can we have a significant mea culpa if that does actually prove to be the case? and these women are fabricating?
because if we’re talking objectivity, it could be true. it could also be false.
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Also, for the record, can we have a significant mea culpa from the lawyer, and everyone else who has been throwing the "lying slappers" epithet around, if it turns out to be the case that these women are telling the truth?
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Tim Hannah, in reply to
Why are we even bother with a trial then? Can’t we just move to sentencing?
just for the record, can we have a significant mea culpa if that [ his client is the victim of a pair of lying slappers with “secret agendas”] does actually prove to be the case? and these women are fabricating?
Trouble is, his trial** is about whether he is guilty beyond reasonable doubt*. If he is found not guilty, that isn’t actually proof that the slappers are lying, it is evidence that the case hasn’t been proven.
I suspect that is quite likely going to be the way it turns out, rape is hard to prove and this doesn’t seem like an open and shut case.
I suspect a lot of people will take Assange being found not guilty as pretty strong evidence that the slappers are, indeed lying. It’s very possible, even likely, that they aren’t lying and that he won’t be found guilty.
*Or something similar, I assume, not being an expert on Swedish juripudence
**If it happens, obviously, sorry.
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Oh, and also a word for The Guardian. Its handling of the cables and the wider story has been tremendous.
Although I'd rather they hadn't run that half-assed Jemima Khan column ...
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Simon Grigg, in reply to
Although I'd rather they hadn't run that half-assed Jemima Khan column ..
It kinda balanced out the equally half baked John Bolton one from a few days earlier.
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Che Tibby, in reply to
i'm sure those arseholes will not hesitate to fail to do so.
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Matthew Poole, in reply to
The SAS is slated to return to support internal security requirements during New Zealand's hosting of the World Rugby Cup in 2011
I ain't going anywhere near a stadium now. Eh? What ARE they expecting??
Have you missed the scale of the security presence at, like, every global-scale sporting event since at least the Atlanta Olympics in 1996?
Seriously, how is ensuring that our last line of counter-terrorist expertise is available in the event of an attack in the least bit surprising? Are you really surprised? Really? That's an incredible degree of naivete.Look at the security circus at the Commonwealth Games for the most-recent example, or hunt Google for the theatrics that have gone on for every other major sporting event in not-so-recent history. Even the Super Bowl. Given the limited tactical response options available to the Police (STG personnel number in the dozens, and they're the best it gets for the cops) it's entirely foreseeable that TPTB will want every card in the deck at their disposal.
In reality it's unlikely that the SAS will have to do anything more than be available, but Afghanistan is a hell of a long way to come if the shit hits the fan. -
giovanni tiso, in reply to
can we have a significant mea culpa from the lawyer, and everyone else who has been throwing the "lying slappers" epithet around
Actually, I think you'll find that that was all Craig, and frankly I wouldn't hold my breath, apology-wise. But the lawyer said no such thing. And the 'secret agenda' that Craig let drop without further qualification had nothing to do with the CIA.
"It was, I believe, more about jealousy and disappointment on their part. I can prove that at least one of them had very big expectations for something to happen with Julian."
That's the extent of it.
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Craig Ranapia, in reply to
just for the record, can we have a significant mea culpa if that does actually prove to be the case? and these women are fabricating?
No, because the slut-shaming rape bingo going on here is beyond vile regardless -- and Ms. Spilt Milk explains why better than I could .
Also, when Assange hires lawyers pushing the "sex without a condom is rape in Sweden" lie I'll take anything Bjorn Hurtig says with a pound of salt and a whole case of top shelf tequila. (I'm still waiting for the evidence that Louise Nicholas attempted to extort money from Brad Shipton -- an allegation that was quite popular with the Kiwibog crowd for a long time.)
ETA:
Actually, I think you'll find that that was all Craig, and frankly I wouldn't hold my breath, apology-wise. But the lawyer said no such thing. And the 'secret agenda' that Craig let drop without further qualification had nothing to do with the CIA.
I've provided links where lawyers connected with Assange have said precisely that, and I'd repost them again except I'm fucking sick of being called a liar, a "hysteric" and a right-wing tool trying to distract from "the real issues". And, no, Gio -- not you. Never you. Always someone bloody else.
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Che Tibby, in reply to
No, because the slut-shaming rape bingo going on here is beyond vile regardless
now, when you say "here", where do you mean exactly?
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giovanni tiso, in reply to
I've provided links where lawyers connected with Assange have said precisely that
Can you repost them please? I've tried going backwards in your comments history but it's stuck on page one.
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I think pretty much everyone here is on the same page, and struggling to find something to argue about, really. We all know that we don't know the truth about the rape.
I'm not sure what's caused the recent antagonism - is it existential despair that these leaks, which should be monumental, are seeming like a bit of a footnote in the news?
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Ross Mason, in reply to
Have you missed the scale of the security presence at, like, every global-scale sporting event since at least the Atlanta Olympics in 1996?
No I haven't. I was involved in Athens and again in India this year. I was well aware of what is invloved in searches, transport etc. eg. If I was a bomber in India, I would have planted my roadside IED in the dark, waited for the bus with siren blaring and Police and Army escorts coming from miles away and watched until it got there and ...Voom. If the bus had just cruised past without a sound nor Police escort, I wouldn't have had a show of figuring out which bus was which. And frankly, it would not have taken much to get around it really. It was presence that is the essential bit. Anything like this can only ever be a response to an incident rather than an interception before the event. This would probably be picked up (given the intelligence available these days, ironically told to us by the leaks) "in time".
It was said more in the tone of "someone else can buy the ticket" thanks.
Just remember the last terrorist act was from a "friend". And even in that event there was suspicion of US/Brit ie "Five Eyes" being invloved in the releasing of the Uvea crew. Who the F*&k needs enemies when you have friends like that?
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He said he did not know the reasons behind the allegations but added that he had "been warned that, for example, the Pentagon plans to use dirty tricks to spoil things for [WikiLeaks]".
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/aug/22/wikileaks-julian-assange-denies-rape-allegations
there's plenty of links to similar statements. Assange and his legal team have been trying to discredit the two women. It's really not worth trying to deny what is true and what there is plenty of evidence for. He's a creep.
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Christiaan, in reply to
The IV programme may not be a secret but the U.S. view of it as a "exceptionally influential" propaganda tool was.
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