Legal Beagle by Graeme Edgeler

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Legal Beagle: Think it possible that you may be mistaken

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  • Sacha, in reply to Mark Hubbard,

    Tiso definitely intended to have them taken off air permanently

    Not what he has said.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19697 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Mark Hubbard,

    could only have had the one intention

    o wise one

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19697 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso, in reply to Sacha,

    Not what he has said.

    Indeed, but Hubbard lives in his own world in which I'm evil.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • Swan,

    " The format is designed to attract controversy and the owners/editors have demonstrated time and again that they only care about advertisers dollars."

    Talkback radio not your thing eh? Interesting.

    Birkenhead • Since Feb 2011 • 86 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to giovanni tiso,

    think you're evil :)

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19697 posts Report Reply

  • Stephen Judd, in reply to Graeme Edgeler,

    I suppose I could have started my attempt to persuade people not to engage in speech designed to decrease the speech of others with an article about Into the River, or about about misogyny in politics, but that’s low-hanging fruit around here.

    Graeme, I think for a lot of people we had a brief moment where the curtain was drawn back and there was a chance of an honest discussion about a terrible and pervasive phenomenon in our society. An emotional, really fraught discussion that many people, mostly women, are too close to to even participate in public or under their own names. Frustratingly, and all-too predictably, instead we have the usual suspects wringing their hands about free speech, even though as Andrew has pointed out with great clarity, there is no simple principled stand to be made here.

    In this light your determination to make a point of principle over a minor setback for a pair of well-connected media men grates. It's an irrelevancy, a sideshow, a distraction, a bit selfish.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 3122 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    Thank you Graeme. I have been thinking about this for weeks and I couldn't agree more..
    I have been thinking about the things we, as a society, tolerate. On one hand we see tolerance as a good thing but then. again, we see the toleration of other things as a creeping evil.
    I would think that most people would be aghast at the idea of advertisers having editorial control over content of an "opinion" show, well I'd like to think that...
    But then some people like to complain, Mary Whitehouse springs to mind but even back then we said "Well, if you don't like it, turn it off" when they have no listeners they will listen.

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • Peter Calder, in reply to Deborah,

    Then you should read it again.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 66 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    The Gio connection is quite illustrative, once the advertisers felt that public opinion would go against them they, apparently ( there are contracts I suppose so, next month deferred?} withdrew their ads, an ad in itself. Those that pander to public opinion for commercial reasons should not be regarded as a moral compass
    Good on Gio for doing something rather than just complain about the inaction of others though.

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to Steve Barnes,

    I would think that most people would be aghast at the idea of advertisers having editorial control over content of an “opinion” show, well I’d like to think that…

    And I’m still struggling to see where anyone is saying otherwise, or where any passive-aggressive corporate censorship has actually happened anywhere. But what about the right to freedom of association? If I owned a small business, I wouldn’t actually want to be associated with casual bigotry. And if Josie Pagani is advising the Labour Party to do so with their election advertising budget next year, well… good luck with that. Hope the ad buys in Investigate and Challenge Weekly work for you.

    Those that pander to public opinion for commercial reasons should not be regarded as a moral compass

    Well, I hope Rosa Parks is feeling thoroughly put in her place wherever she is.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso, in reply to Peter Calder,

    Then you should read it again.

    Actual "wow".

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report Reply

  • llew40,

    I was involved in the decision of one of the advertisers to withdraw from radio live.

    We did not and do not see it as in any way exercising some form of editorial control over another business

    As a business we have a choice as to where we put advertising dollar and decisions about that are made constantly for all sorts of reasons. And heck, any business that sells ad space knows this.

    In this case, after much discussion, we elected to withdraw, for what we believe were entirely the right reasons.

    We felt very comfortable with the decision and our customer feedback strongly supported it.

    Since Nov 2012 • 140 posts Report Reply

  • Jolisa,

    So many thoughts, so tongue-tied right now, so grateful for the eloquence of others.

    I've been thinking and thinking and thinking about the quotation that gives this post its title. It's such a clear-eyed statement of theoretical open-mindedness. Unobjectionable. Agreeable, even. A useful injunction; a workable bottom line for intelligent debate of the sort we generally enjoy in this forum.

    Oddly enough, it's also what rape culture tells those to whom something has actually happened. Out loud. In your own head. In the moment. Down at the station. Over the teacups. In the factory. At the party. The morning after. In the newspaper, on the telly (see the PDF that Lilith linked to earlier, and which I wish everyone would read before commenting further). The insidious whisper of structural dominance asserting itself: "Think it possible that you may be mistaken."

    I don't know what to do with this horrible paradox but maybe it helps explain the parallel lines along which this discussion is running. One person's handy theoretical credo is another's all-too-familiar dismissal of lived experience.

    Auckland, NZ • Since Nov 2006 • 1472 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes, in reply to llew40,

    In this case, after much discussion, we elected to withdraw, for what we believe were entirely the right reasons.We felt very comfortable with the decision and our customer feedback strongly supported it

    And those “right reasons” were?

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    Well, I hope Rosa Parks is feeling thoroughly put in her place wherever she is.

    Point taken.
    This though is now,and we would like to think, as a species, we should have grown beyond that but…

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • Deborah, in reply to giovanni tiso,

    Yeeeessss.... had to step away from the keyboard.

    I think I'll just stay away from it, actually.

    New Lynn • Since Nov 2006 • 1445 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes, in reply to Deborah,

    had to step away from the keyboard.I think I’ll just stay away from it, actually.

    I know how you feel.

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • llew40,

    Cos we can advertise where we like. And we didn't like that.

    Since Nov 2012 • 140 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Jolisa,

    The insidious whisper of structural dominance asserting itself

    Courtesy of obedient choirboys fantasising about 'freedom'.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19697 posts Report Reply

  • Martin Lindberg,

    This whole affair has almost made me ashamed of being a white (cis-) man in my forties.

    Stockholm • Since Jul 2009 • 802 posts Report Reply

  • Danielle, in reply to Deborah,

    Apparently Peter thought the thread lacked a little Eau de Patronising Git.

    Charo World. Cuchi-cuchi!… • Since Nov 2006 • 3828 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Guards!

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19697 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes, in reply to Sacha,

    Courtesy of obedient choirboys fantasising about ‘freedom’.

    Or obedient protestants running with the "work ethic", turning us from Human Beings to Human Doings.

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • Kairakau, in reply to llew40,

    Yep, that!

    Wellington • Since Jul 2012 • 2 posts Report Reply

  • Keir Leslie, in reply to Jolisa,

    “Open-mindedness”, yes, but put the quotation in one of its full contexts: as part of an ultimatum threatening war.

    Since Jul 2008 • 1452 posts Report Reply

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