OnPoint by Keith Ng

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OnPoint: Budget 2011: Now with 70% less wordiness!

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  • George Darroch,

    Word.

    Briefly: super untouched, RoNS roll on, military unmolested.

    WLG • Since Nov 2006 • 2264 posts Report

  • 3410,

    Realised that I was kinda droning on yesterday.

    Nah. We appreciate it and try to keep up.

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 2618 posts Report

  • Ana Simkiss,

    But...isn't there a good thing we will not get, ie more private savings for retirement, and less private debt? Help me understand Keith!

    Freemans Bay • Since Nov 2006 • 141 posts Report

  • Paul Campbell,

    too short (minor typos) 'nd'->'and' 'when'->'went'

    Dunedin • Since Nov 2006 • 2623 posts Report

  • Ian MacKay,

    Anyway there are strong rumours that this Budget was written/masterminded by Steven Joyce, the Rumsfield lurking in the National ranks. They are laughing at the people. Unwise strategy.
    It does leave a gap for Labour Greens to enunciate a fresh direction and increasingly a need will grow for Key to be more specific. Can't fudge questions forever.

    Bleheim • Since Nov 2006 • 498 posts Report

  • Greville Whittle, in reply to Ana Simkiss,

    But...isn't there a good thing we will not get, ie more private savings for retirement, and less private debt? Help me understand Keith!

    I'm not sure what you mean here. If by private savings you mean Kiwisaver, then no there probably will not be more money going in.

    A number of businesses allready treat Kiwisaver as a benefit towards the overall value of an emaployment package, like an insurance package.

    Base Salary + Benefits = Total Value.

    If the cost of the benefits goes up then this will put a squeeze on the base salary even though the total value of the package goes up. I haven't done the maths, however with the government contributions being reduced you will save less real money while costing your employer more. Everyone loses.

    Hamiltron • Since Oct 2008 • 50 posts Report

  • linger, in reply to Greville Whittle,

    Yep, that was exactly Ana's point (=there is something good that we will NO LONGER get as a result of the budget; hence it is not neutral)

    Tokyo • Since Apr 2007 • 1944 posts Report

  • Andrew R2,

    Plu-leaze. This $1.2 billion saving exists only if the budget projections re growth, tax increase etc are accurate. Simply they aren't and it won't.

    (And the revenue lost because of top end income earner tax cuts is more than $1.2 billion per year anyway.)

    Russell • Since May 2011 • 7 posts Report

  • Sacha, in reply to Andrew R2,

    the revenue lost because of top end income earner tax cuts is more than $1.2 billion per year anyway

    They pulled the same trick last year of adding a (fudged) projection of growth to claim that their tax package was 'neutral'. Media dolts largely swallowed the kool aid.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report

  • Ian MacKay, in reply to Sacha,

    Key/Joyce are laughing at our gullibility Sacha and that's not nice.

    Bleheim • Since Nov 2006 • 498 posts Report

  • Sacha, in reply to Ian MacKay,

    I have faith in properly-informed people making good decisions.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report

  • bmk, in reply to Sacha,

    I don't. Probably because I think most people aren't properly informed and aren't that interested in becoming properly informed.
    When I talk to the average person about politics they can kind of agree that National haven't enacted good policies but then they usually finish it with '... but John Key seems like a good bloke so I'm going to vote for them again.'

    Since Jun 2010 • 327 posts Report

  • Sacha, in reply to bmk,

    I think most people aren't properly informed

    I agree. Informed enough in political terms means both media and opposition doing their jobs so that voters don't need to wade through all the policy detail or gameplaying to form an impression of who/what to vote for.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report

  • Gareth Ward,

    This $1.2b isn't all it's cracked up to be. It's coming out of money the government was pumping into private KiwiSaver accounts.

    They needed an extra $1.2b in funding (I'd argue they needed more but OK), and got most of it by raising taxes (through reversing tax credits) on private retirement savings. Ace.

    Auckland, NZ • Since Mar 2007 • 1727 posts Report

  • Keith Ng, in reply to Ana Simkiss,

    But...isn't there a good thing we will not get, ie more private savings for retirement, and less private debt? Help me understand Keith

    Kinda, but not really. That private savings will be offset by public debt (i.e. Government borrowing money). More importantly, they'll go disproportionately to high-income earners.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 543 posts Report

  • Keith Ng, in reply to Andrew R2,

    Plu-leaze. This $1.2 billion saving exists only if the budget projections re growth, tax increase etc are accurate. Simply they aren't and it won't.

    The $2.6b cut to KiwiSaver subsidies is real. Whatever the growth rate turns out to be, this savings will still exist.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 543 posts Report

  • linger,

    Well, it’s real in terms of the government’s balance sheet, anyway – which may be too limited a way of looking at it, eh.

    Tokyo • Since Apr 2007 • 1944 posts Report

  • Steve Barnes, in reply to bmk,

    When I talk to the average person about politics they can kind of agree that National haven’t enacted good policies but then they usually finish it with ‘… but John Key seems like a good bloke so I’m going to vote for them again.’

    I concur. The media is what informs most of our citizens and I hear this sort of thing everyday.
    It's that bloody bracelet I tell you.

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report

  • nzlemming, in reply to Ian MacKay,

    increasingly a need will grow for Key to be more specific. Can't fudge questions forever

    He only wants to fudge them till November 26...

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2937 posts Report

  • nzlemming, in reply to Keith Ng,

    The $2.6b cut to KiwiSaver subsidies is real. Whatever the growth rate turns out to be, this savings will still exist

    "Reduced expenditure" != "savings"

    Go and sit on the naughty step for that one.

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2937 posts Report

  • Robert Urquhart,

    I just let off in my LJ/blog about "Incentive" not being equal to "Opportunity" after something Bill English said in an interview today.

    Christchurch • Since Mar 2009 • 163 posts Report

  • giovanni tiso, in reply to bmk,

    When I talk to the average person about politics they can kind of agree that National haven't enacted good policies but then they usually finish it with '... but John Key seems like a good bloke so I'm going to vote for them again.'

    So long as the other major party in Parliament fails to come up with coherent and recognisably different policies from National's, it makes perfect sense for people to choose the leader who projects a more competent image.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report

  • Ana Simkiss, in reply to Keith Ng,

    Private savings are offset by government borrowings, yes I grok that. What you're saying is that we are robbing Peter to pay...Peter (Peter being the better off who get cuts to their taxes while paying more tax on Kiwisaver).

    But my question is this: isn't it private debt that NZ ought to be worried about? as I understand it private offshore debt has been the concern of the ratings agencies, and our government debt is not very alarming in an international context.

    Freemans Bay • Since Nov 2006 • 141 posts Report

  • Sacha, in reply to giovanni tiso,

    So long as the other major party in Parliament fails to come up with coherent and recognisably different policies from National's

    That seems to be changing, at last - posted on t'other Budget thread.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19745 posts Report

  • giovanni tiso, in reply to Sacha,

    Our views on what constitutes recognisably different policies appear to be wildly divergent.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7473 posts Report

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