OnPoint: Budget 2011: Now with 70% less wordiness!
45 Responses
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Word.
Briefly: super untouched, RoNS roll on, military unmolested.
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3410,
Realised that I was kinda droning on yesterday.
Nah. We appreciate it and try to keep up.
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But...isn't there a good thing we will not get, ie more private savings for retirement, and less private debt? Help me understand Keith!
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too short (minor typos) 'nd'->'and' 'when'->'went'
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Anyway there are strong rumours that this Budget was written/masterminded by Steven Joyce, the Rumsfield lurking in the National ranks. They are laughing at the people. Unwise strategy.
It does leave a gap for Labour Greens to enunciate a fresh direction and increasingly a need will grow for Key to be more specific. Can't fudge questions forever. -
Greville Whittle, in reply to
But...isn't there a good thing we will not get, ie more private savings for retirement, and less private debt? Help me understand Keith!
I'm not sure what you mean here. If by private savings you mean Kiwisaver, then no there probably will not be more money going in.
A number of businesses allready treat Kiwisaver as a benefit towards the overall value of an emaployment package, like an insurance package.
Base Salary + Benefits = Total Value.
If the cost of the benefits goes up then this will put a squeeze on the base salary even though the total value of the package goes up. I haven't done the maths, however with the government contributions being reduced you will save less real money while costing your employer more. Everyone loses.
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linger, in reply to
Yep, that was exactly Ana's point (=there is something good that we will NO LONGER get as a result of the budget; hence it is not neutral)
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Plu-leaze. This $1.2 billion saving exists only if the budget projections re growth, tax increase etc are accurate. Simply they aren't and it won't.
(And the revenue lost because of top end income earner tax cuts is more than $1.2 billion per year anyway.)
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Sacha, in reply to
the revenue lost because of top end income earner tax cuts is more than $1.2 billion per year anyway
They pulled the same trick last year of adding a (fudged) projection of growth to claim that their tax package was 'neutral'. Media dolts largely swallowed the kool aid.
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Ian MacKay, in reply to
Key/Joyce are laughing at our gullibility Sacha and that's not nice.
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Sacha, in reply to
I have faith in properly-informed people making good decisions.
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bmk, in reply to
I don't. Probably because I think most people aren't properly informed and aren't that interested in becoming properly informed.
When I talk to the average person about politics they can kind of agree that National haven't enacted good policies but then they usually finish it with '... but John Key seems like a good bloke so I'm going to vote for them again.' -
Sacha, in reply to
I think most people aren't properly informed
I agree. Informed enough in political terms means both media and opposition doing their jobs so that voters don't need to wade through all the policy detail or gameplaying to form an impression of who/what to vote for.
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This $1.2b isn't all it's cracked up to be. It's coming out of money the government was pumping into private KiwiSaver accounts.
They needed an extra $1.2b in funding (I'd argue they needed more but OK), and got most of it by raising taxes (through reversing tax credits) on private retirement savings. Ace.
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Keith Ng, in reply to
But...isn't there a good thing we will not get, ie more private savings for retirement, and less private debt? Help me understand Keith
Kinda, but not really. That private savings will be offset by public debt (i.e. Government borrowing money). More importantly, they'll go disproportionately to high-income earners.
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Keith Ng, in reply to
Plu-leaze. This $1.2 billion saving exists only if the budget projections re growth, tax increase etc are accurate. Simply they aren't and it won't.
The $2.6b cut to KiwiSaver subsidies is real. Whatever the growth rate turns out to be, this savings will still exist.
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Well, it’s real in terms of the government’s balance sheet, anyway – which may be too limited a way of looking at it, eh.
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Steve Barnes, in reply to
When I talk to the average person about politics they can kind of agree that National haven’t enacted good policies but then they usually finish it with ‘… but John Key seems like a good bloke so I’m going to vote for them again.’
I concur. The media is what informs most of our citizens and I hear this sort of thing everyday.
It's that bloody bracelet I tell you. -
nzlemming, in reply to
increasingly a need will grow for Key to be more specific. Can't fudge questions forever
He only wants to fudge them till November 26...
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nzlemming, in reply to
The $2.6b cut to KiwiSaver subsidies is real. Whatever the growth rate turns out to be, this savings will still exist
"Reduced expenditure" != "savings"
Go and sit on the naughty step for that one.
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I just let off in my LJ/blog about "Incentive" not being equal to "Opportunity" after something Bill English said in an interview today.
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giovanni tiso, in reply to
When I talk to the average person about politics they can kind of agree that National haven't enacted good policies but then they usually finish it with '... but John Key seems like a good bloke so I'm going to vote for them again.'
So long as the other major party in Parliament fails to come up with coherent and recognisably different policies from National's, it makes perfect sense for people to choose the leader who projects a more competent image.
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Ana Simkiss, in reply to
Private savings are offset by government borrowings, yes I grok that. What you're saying is that we are robbing Peter to pay...Peter (Peter being the better off who get cuts to their taxes while paying more tax on Kiwisaver).
But my question is this: isn't it private debt that NZ ought to be worried about? as I understand it private offshore debt has been the concern of the ratings agencies, and our government debt is not very alarming in an international context.
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Sacha, in reply to
So long as the other major party in Parliament fails to come up with coherent and recognisably different policies from National's
That seems to be changing, at last - posted on t'other Budget thread.
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giovanni tiso, in reply to
Our views on what constitutes recognisably different policies appear to be wildly divergent.
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