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Random Play: The Age of Reason

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  • Rich of Observationz,

    They banned bonfires? I thought people just didn't have them coz it's too warm in an NZ November to want to stand around a fire?

    I come from near Chiddingfold, Surrey, UK. When the cops tried to stop a bonfire celebration there in 1929, they nearly got thrown on it. (It was the last reading of the Riot Act in the UK).

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 5550 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    And I'm sure we probably annoyed the neighbours a bit last night, but not beyond a reasonable hour. I fancied that the fireworks were very good this year, although the big expensive ones didn't seem any better than the more modest ones.

    Even without the Khandahar analogy, it was a silly thing for Clark to say. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the issue's safety, and not an important person's right to read the New Statesman in peace ...

    OTOH, that was a few hours after Len Richards' effort, so perhaps she wasn't in her happy place to begin with.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22850 posts Report Reply

  • Richard Llewellyn,

    But I love Guy Fawkes with all the noise and skyrockets and I still think it was sad day when we -- “they” actually -- banned bonfires.

    Is this true? - so does that mean, hypothetically speaking of course, that if *someone I know* likes to host gatherings and socialise in the backyard around a glowing brazier, that person is actually breaking some by-law? Just curious.

    Mt Albert • Since Nov 2006 • 399 posts Report Reply

  • Robyn Gallagher,

    I live up the hill from Helen Clark, and every year the week around Guy Fawkes is filled with those darn kids and their fireworks. They go up Mt Eden and let them off, and the bangs echo around the valley.

    I've seen some crazy shit over the years, including the guys from the local kebab shop who were standing out on the footpath letting off fireworks held in their hands, WTF.

    But despite all the bangs, last night I caught a glimpse of Eden Valley and the suburbs of Auckland stretching out west, and there were all these pretty bursts of fireworks. It looked much more gentle than the giant bad-ass public park displays.

    Since Nov 2006 • 1946 posts Report Reply

  • Gareth Ward,

    but I think the issue's safety, and not an important person's right to read the New Statesman in peace ...

    HEY-O!


    As always, this kind of debate comes down to the drawing of the line between funtimes and the externalities of harm to others. I've always put fireworks on the funtimes side of that line but watching everything that happened last year dragged me over to be hovering gently inside the ban-side...
    The fact that damage this year seems relatively contained has me questioning if I was knee-jerking that call though...

    Auckland, NZ • Since Mar 2007 • 1727 posts Report Reply

  • Gareth Ward,

    Oh, and I must say that post-Whatsaname-Frenchies in the Domain last year any personally purchasable fireworks seem rather lame...

    Auckland, NZ • Since Mar 2007 • 1727 posts Report Reply

  • Heather Gaye,

    last night I caught a glimpse of Eden Valley and the suburbs of Auckland stretching out west, and there were all these pretty bursts of fireworks.

    Same, I sat on my stairs for half an hour & watched all the skyrockets out west. It was really cool. I also noticed that nearly all the fireworks had finished up before 11. I think that's reasonable.

    I have to say I enjoyed it hella more for not having been kept awake by fireworks for a full two weeks out from guy fawkes.

    Morningside • Since Nov 2006 • 533 posts Report Reply

  • Jeremy Andrew,

    I too enjoyed the shortened selling period. But some inconsiderate sods over our back fence decided to celebrate on the official date until well after midnight. I don't mind so much on the weekend, but when you've got work in the morning.
    It was exacerbated by the way fireworks have gotten louder - to make up for not being allowed to be as dangerous. I don't miss keeping an eye out for flaming skyrockets in the guttering, but the bigger bangs are just obnoxious.

    From what I've seen in the media, the measures to ban the more dangerous fireworks are succeeding, most of the reported incidents were from people being dicks, not from inadvertant acts. The only way to stop idiots throwing sparklers into people's windows is to ban them altogether, which means the tiny minority of morons spoil it for the majority of the sensible folks.

    Hamiltron - City of the F… • Since Nov 2006 • 900 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    Is this true? - so does that mean, hypothetically speaking of course, that if *someone I know* likes to host gatherings and socialise in the backyard around a glowing brazier, that person is actually breaking some by-law? Just curious.

    I think lighting fires in public places has been banned in most places for some time. You have to have a permit to light a fire outside of a BBQ or a fireplace etc. I don't think that relates specifically to Guy Fawkes. Down here students get fined $500 for setting their furniture on fire, no matter what the date.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6243 posts Report Reply

  • InternationalObserver,

    I live up the hill from Helen Clark...

    Don't diminish yourself. It's NOT called Eden Hill but Mount Eden! It's a small mountain!!

    And since Graeme brought up TV News Bollocks, let me highlight this failure by TV3 on Sunday night to even cover the basics from Journalism 101.

    Their lead story was viewer video of an accident at a 'Fireworks Display' (of the kind the ban fireworks brigade want us all to be satisfied with). Where did it happen? In Auckland, according to the lead-in from the newsreader. Auckland's a big place but maybe the story itself will tell us? Er, no.

    The closest we got was half way thru:

    The Howick Lions, who organise the annual event, have launched an investigation

    Oh, so it must be out East, near Howick? Er, no. Because at the end of the story we're told:

    Just a few hours later it was thick toxic smoke and raging flames which lit up the skies as fire tore through the nearby Cornwall Park Bowling Club.

    Oh, so it was somewhere near Cornwall Park? Where? Mt Smart Stadium (Penrose)? Waikeraka Park (Onehunga)? We're never told.

    It turns out (watching TV1 on Monday) it was at Alexandra Park. Gee TV3, I know it was the weekend but surely some of your news staff know how to write an informative story?

    And in other news: Middle East tensions remain high after a bomb went off, killing civillians.

    Since Jun 2007 • 909 posts Report Reply

  • Rob Hosking,

    The firework thing is another branch of that maturity thing - the dividing line comes when you stop collecting notices from noise control officers and start phoning noise control...

    South Roseneath • Since Nov 2006 • 830 posts Report Reply

  • Keith Ng,

    Also in the news (top story, in fact):

    Don't take cake from strangers.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 543 posts Report Reply

  • Jeremy Andrew,

    The firework thing is another branch of that maturity thing - the dividing line comes when you stop collecting notices from noise control officers and start phoning noise control...

    Sounds like one of those "three stages of man" things - you know:
    1) You believe in Santa
    2) You don't believe in Santa
    3) You are Santa

    Hamiltron - City of the F… • Since Nov 2006 • 900 posts Report Reply

  • 81stcolumn,

    I leave it to you guys to judge whether the police have a complete grasp on the matter they seem to be dealing with Guy Faulkes ?

    Nawthshaw • Since Nov 2006 • 790 posts Report Reply

  • 3410,

    Their lead story was viewer video of an accident at a 'Fireworks Display'

    The TV3 website's "transcript" quotes a Mr. Maka Nuhisifa thus:

    "You had to be there to see the fear," says a crying Maka Nuhisifa. "It was it terrifying... you had to be there... it was like something out of a movie."

    The footage actually shows this:

    Mr. Nuhisifa: "You had to be there to see the fear,"
    Reporter: "Was it terrifying?"
    Mr. Nuhisifa: "You had to be there... it was like something out of a movie."

    Another online version of the report (which I can't now find) described the guy who captured cellphone footage as "disgusted", before cutting to the guy himself admitting to being "a bit disappointed".

    Terrifying? Disgusting? Um, no.


    Sheesh.

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 2618 posts Report Reply

  • InternationalObserver,

    from 81stcolumn's link:

    They were stopped by Police and taken back to the safety shoulder of the Motorway. A Police Officer then offered to drop the couple off at their home as they lived nearby. Before the couple reached their home a female Officer was allegedly assaulted and the couple ran off. They ran off but were apprehended a short distance away. they too will now face charges as a result of their actions.

    Y'see, when you're psyched up to do a runner and not pay for your taxi fare .... well, even when offered a free ride you sometimes can't help yourself ...

    Since Jun 2007 • 909 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    Even without the Khandahar analogy, it was a silly thing for Clark to say. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the issue's safety, and not an important person's right to read the New Statesman in peace ...

    And very surprised to hear her on Close Up saying the noise was so bad she had problems sleeping! Bloody hell, this is a woman I'm reliably informed can sleep on a Hercules air transport -- which may be known for many things, but it's business class appointments are not among them.

    Terrifying? Disgusting? Um, no.


    Sheesh

    Indeed - especially when Fiji is horrendous enough without adjectival sexing up and editorial brow-furrowing. (Though to be fair, Dallow has a long way to go before he matches Judy Bailey or Paul Holmes for Parkinsonian Mummy Of The Nation [tm] body language.)

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz,

    Well, as InternationalObserver points out, as of yesterday morning, and I haven't checked further, the majority of reported firework accidents were at public displays and the remainder were all due to product failure.

    I analysed the incidents reported in a typically biased Herald article here. The only obvious dumbass accident was people fooling with petrol, not fireworks. I'm assuming no ban on petrol is planned, although it would make NZ a safer place and reduce global warming.

    It also occurs to me that it's possible that the reduced sale time for fireworks has had a negative effect on product quality, and the increased number of public displays has impacted operator competence.

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 5550 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    I've seen some crazy shit over the years, including the guys from the local kebab shop who were standing out on the footpath letting off fireworks held in their hands, WTF.

    If you can draft legislation to ban morons (or at least put them in some gulag on White Island) I'm soooo there. Can see some problems though... bloody civil libertarians. :)

    The fact that damage this year seems relatively contained has me questioning if I was knee-jerking that call though...

    Well, I keep coming back to this question - don't we have perfectly adequate laws regarding destruction and damage to other people's property, cruelty to animals etc. No, I wouldn't be best pleased if some fucktard threw a sparkler through an open window into my house. But not more or less than if the offensive object was a lit cigarette, or a rock. And anyone who screws with my pussy is asking for a world of hurt -- don't care how you do it.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    And to be positive for once, big ups to the neighbors who pushed a note through our letterbox - as they do every year - advising that they'd be having a small fireworks party in their backyard, it would be over (or at least the festivities moved indoors) by 9.30 and we might like to make arrangements to have our pets indoors.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Rob Hosking,

    Done some dumb things with fireworks myself in my time, (blogged on it recently) so I'm sort of writing off as karma the fact they kept me awake on Monday night.

    They are louder than they used to be. Living on the south side of Mt Vic, heard a lot of the loud public display and some of the bangs came with that crump of compressed sound. That's new.

    And you can't insulate pets against that sort of thing. It's not just a matter of keeping them indoors.

    South Roseneath • Since Nov 2006 • 830 posts Report Reply

  • Ben Austin,

    So do any other countries control fireworks quite as much as we do? I've been scanning the papers here and have yet to see the kind of deep, bipartisan coverage we enjoy back home re the issue.

    London • Since Nov 2006 • 1027 posts Report Reply

  • David Haywood,

    Ben Austin wrote:

    So do any other countries control fireworks quite as much as we do? I've been scanning the papers here and have yet to see the kind of deep, bipartisan coverage we enjoy back home re the issue.

    There are much stronger restrictions on fireworks in some states in the US. When we spent a summer in Boston (a couple of years back) fireworks of any kind were totally illegal. Everyone had to drive up to New Hampshire to buy them -- and then risk prosecution setting them off back home in Massachusetts.

    By the way, everywhere I've ever spent time in the US has had much stronger controls on everything (with the exception of guns and motorcycle helmets) than in New Zealand. And higher taxes too (when you take state and county taxes into account as well). So much for the land of the free, I always think.

    Dunsandel • Since Nov 2006 • 1156 posts Report Reply

  • Gareth Ward,

    Well, I keep coming back to this question - don't we have perfectly adequate laws regarding destruction and damage to other people's property, cruelty to animals etc. No, I wouldn't be best pleased if some fucktard threw a sparkler through an open window into my house. But not more or less than if the offensive object was a lit cigarette, or a rock.

    There are all kinds of precedents about bans/licences/controls on particularly damaging things though. C4 for example (a rather extreme one). But in most of those cases it's because their only cause is destruction/damage (even though C4 wrapped around some green plastic soldiers would be a helluva lot a fun). It certainly seemed last year like the amount of damage and destruction had tipped fireworks into that category but this year hasn't been so bad and has got me back in the "everyone should just be smart about it" camp.

    And anyone who screws with my pussy is asking for a world of hurt

    =/

    Auckland, NZ • Since Mar 2007 • 1727 posts Report Reply

  • InternationalObserver,

    I think we got off lightly this year due to the rain everywhere. I suspect there's a lot of delinquent teens biding their time. Come New Years Eve it'll all be on.

    I'm over fireworks and think they should be banned. Living in a high density area you have no control over the noise. I couldn't even tell which one of my many neighbours was throwing fireworks into my back yard let alone remonstrate with them.

    So my 5y.o. daughter was freaked out (and crying) all night because fireworks are 'fun' and it's a 'tradition' - all part of 'kiwi culture'. What? Supposedly we're celebrating a plot to blow up the British parliament a few hundred years back - what's 'kiwi' about that?

    Okay, so we all know it's really about blowing shit up cos it's fun. Yeah, well everything is fun until someone loses an eye.

    No, I wouldn't be best pleased if some fucktard threw a sparkler through an open window into my house. But not more or less than if the offensive object was a lit cigarette, or a rock.

    Yeah, but that the problem with Guy Fawkes -- it's like we're giving delinquents a liscense to to do stupid shit they wouldn't dare try another time of year.

    Since Jun 2007 • 909 posts Report Reply

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