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Speaker: The Democracy-Free Zone

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  • Joe Wylie, in reply to Raymond A Francis,

    Of course everybody (at Public Address one presumes)) thought it was just great that Ecan (or as it was known further South Ecan't) was a democracy that allowed the population base of Christchurch to interfere in the lives of people who lived in North Otago a 180 kms away.

    Attempted condescension from the pits of ignorance. If you wish to entertain yourself by conjuring a fantasy of mindless straw people then go for it, but don't expect to be taken seriously. There was a great deal of disquiet over Kerry Burke's asleep at the wheel stewardship of ECAN which was reflected in the steadily eroding vote for his complacent faction over the last two elections.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4591 posts Report Reply

  • Chris Waugh, in reply to Raymond A Francis,

    And the parochialism is most unbecoming. And if north Otago were shifted to the Otago Regional Council, wouldn't you still have Dunedin to complain about when council decisions didn't go your way?

    Wellington • Since Jan 2007 • 2401 posts Report Reply

  • Lilith __, in reply to Raymond A Francis,

    So, you didn't like what ECan was doing, and you're pleased they've been replaced with appointed commissioners?
    I don't like what the current govt is doing, but I sure as hell wouldn't rather they were replaced with commissioners.
    [Insofar as that hasn't already happened in Chch with Gerry and CERA and all their special powers.]
    The loss of democracy is so much worse than bad government.

    Dunedin • Since Jul 2010 • 3887 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic, in reply to Raymond A Francis,

    What if, in 2016, the sacked ECan councillors are voted back in? Will the Govt just boot them out again? And there's little to stop the Local Govt Minister from doing a Greater London Council job on Len Brown.

    I'm reminded of Thomas Fowler in Philip Noyce's version of The Quiet American remarking, "So you give them that, they vote and they elect Ho Chi Minh."

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5415 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Withers, in reply to Sacha,

    Great article. Thanks for posting the link.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2008 • 312 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Kumara Republic,

    What if, in 2016, the sacked ECan councillors are voted back in?

    Look for the length of time that water rights can be granted for, before then. As part of the Auckland region law changes, some were extended to 35 years so Watercare's functions could be privatised for that length of time if the stars aligned politically at local level. Matter of time..

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19680 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Raymond A Francis,

    a democracy that allowed the population base of Christchurch to interfere in the lives of people who lived in North Otago a 180 kms away.

    Regional councils do that.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19680 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Steve Withers,

    Welcome. Rob got there first. Should be read as widely as possible. Extremely relevant to the school changes as well.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19680 posts Report Reply

  • Hebe,

    Great works Bronwyn and everyone on here.

    My read is that though many of us are not protesting today, we share one overarching idea: We want our city back.

    Christchurch • Since May 2011 • 2895 posts Report Reply

  • Jarno van der Linden, in reply to Kumara Republic,

    What if, in 2016, the sacked ECan councillors are voted back in?

    Nah, won't happen. The government is so full of praise for the efficiency of the government-appointed ECan council that I expect changes to the RMA to extend the model nationwide.

    Nelson • Since Oct 2007 • 81 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie,

    Attachment

    Megan Woods addressing today's 3500 strong Save Our Schools rally in South Hagley Park. Nice to see the MP I voted for putting her head above the parapet and sounding like she meant it.

    BTW Hekia Parata and Nicky Wagner were invited. Naturally they didn't attend.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4591 posts Report Reply

  • Hebe, in reply to Kumara Republic,

    What if, in 2016, the sacked ECan councillors are voted back in? Will the Govt just boot them out again? And there's little to stop the Local Govt Minister from doing a Greater London Council job on Len Brown.

    The paddock will have been designed, sowed, and the fences reinforced by then, so it doesn't matter what breed of sheep are in there at any time. In other words: the regulatory frameworks are what is being done now. They will be as set in place as much as possible so any substantive change will very difficult and a long, long process.

    Christchurch • Since May 2011 • 2895 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    David Carter and Amy Adams announced early this month that ECan elections would be delayed until 2016. That is despite promises, when democratically elected councillors were sacked in 2010, that elections would return in 2013.

    from Joe's link
    So what if the people of Christchurch went ahead and held an election anyway, would the Government refuse to recognise the authority?.
    Well of course they would. When we have a Prime Minister who believes not reading a document means it's contents do not exist it is easy to imagine his sycophantic followers ignoring the wishes of an entire electorate but hey, it would show them up for the knowingly ignorant self entitled pricks they are

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole, in reply to Steve Barnes,

    if the people of Christchurch went ahead and held an election anyway, would the Government refuse to recognise the authority?

    Well, yes, they would, and not just because they're a bunch of self-important entitled jack-asses. They also have the benefit of local elections needing to be called by the local authority's properly-appointed electoral officer, and outside of the triennial cycle the electoral officer must be instructed to conduct an election by said local authority. With no elected local authority the electoral officer for ECan (who I assume must have been appointed, since the law requires that the position be filled) is not going to be the recipient of such instructions. And that means that National could, entirely correctly, dismiss the election as a sham, possibly even fraudulent, and certainly not worthy of proper recognition.

    The terrible weakness of our system of government is that central government has all the cards, and cannot be compelled by any means short of armed insurrection to even let go of one card's corner.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2007 • 4097 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes, in reply to Matthew Poole,

    outside of the triennial cycle

    So what if the election was held on the originally appointed date in 2013 and the people refused to accept the cancellation of their democracy and just went ahead. Where there's a will there is a loophole. Even if the Govt. refused to accept the authority, which as you rightly point out they would, it would still be there to expose the lack of democracy regardless of its legal standing, a council in exile as such.

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole, in reply to Steve Barnes,

    So what if the election was held on the originally appointed date in 2013 and the people refused to accept the cancellation of their democracy and just went ahead.

    At this point I will cry out for Graeme, but I suspect that the informal nature of the ballots (electoral officer will be bound to not produce ballot papers since the elections have been cancelled) would be what National would hold up in support. That and, of course, that they have suspended ECan's status as a democracy and, thus, elections are invalid. It's very soviet, one-party-state ish.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2007 • 4097 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Steve Barnes,

    Micrograve coven...

    ...a council in exile as such.

    we even have a surfeit of blasted heaths
    'pon which they could meet by starlight

    ...who believes not reading a document
    means it’s contents do not exist

    The pryme minster (from Hel in Lensville)
    knows well the power of magic wave
    and glamoured smile, and
    he knows not to read the words
    of power and knowledge, lightly
    lest they burn his brain
    and blight his house of cards
    and dismaying demesne...

    his dominion is only over the 'do minions'
    so our rallying call shall be
    Just Don't!

    <aside>
    Yesterday I noticed what must be advance spin for either asset sales or an upcoming Ayn Rand movie - a plane towing a sign saying 'Money is Good' also posters about town... Did I also see a poster saying 'Money is Bad'?
    What is reality?
    </aside>

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7886 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    Yesterday I noticed what must be advance spin for either asset sales or an upcoming Ayn Rand movie - a plane towing a sign saying 'Money is Good' also posters about town... Did I also see a poster saying 'Money is Bad'?
    What is reality?

    A pertinent question for those venal and troll-duped souls who turned out in Albert Park.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4591 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    a plane towing a sign saying ‘Money is Good’ also posters about town… Did I also see a poster saying ‘Money is Bad’?
    What is reality?

    Some, well a few actually, have been sucked in up here too.

    About 100 Aucklanders lured to Albert Park this morning with the promise of $10,000 dropping from the sky were sorely disappointed.

    Hopping on the back of the Money is Good, Money is Bad advertising campaign, a Twitter profile was created to dupe Aucklanders into thinking cash would be dropped in the central city.

    The reality?
    You are not alone in asking that question.
    Robyn Gallagher thinks it's for Work & Income... fnahh
    Time to go digging…

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    I don't think it's this...
    Ayn Rand Movie Fails in Free Market (Despite Tea Party Hype) but I was amused...

    The reviews of "Atlas Shrugged" have been merciless. And despite a major push by Tea Party networks, Ayn Rand's paean to ego-centrism has not drawn audiences.

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • Stephen Judd,

    It has occurred to me to wonder what would happen if all the children turned up to class and the teachers continued to teach in their schools as usual no matter what the Ministry wanted.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 3122 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Stephen Judd,

    Unchartered waters...

    ...what would happen if all the children turned up to class and the teachers continued to teach in their schools as usual...

    ...maybe a 'management/staff' buyout
    - instant community owned charter schools!

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7886 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel,

    More Democracy in action...
    I hadn't fully realised the Draconian nature of the CCDU's envisioned Chchch CBD retail zone, The Press reports today that:

    New quake recovery rules require retail developments to be planned in 7500-square-metre lots, which is about a third of a city block.
    A landowner with a site smaller than the required lot size will have to submit a development plan for the surrounding 7500 square metre block to get permission to build on their land.
    ...
    "City centre landowner Miles Middleton, who owns three small sites in the retail precinct, fears he will not be able to develop a building on his own site independently.
    This creates a lot of uncertainty because if everyone can't agree, Cera will step in. If all our sites were on one site we would be quite happy, but we have to deal with lots of neighbours now," he said.
    "If one landowner doesn't agree, then the land could be taken away from them. If they do agree, I am not sure about the funding and how it will be done."

    nor had I realised just how truly venal and abhorrent some of the current large land title holders are...

    Central city landowner Anthony Gough, whose family own about 7500 square metres of land in the precinct, welcomed the new rule.
    "If you are a small land holder you will be worried as heck, but if you are a big land holder it doesn't matter a hoot," he said.
    "People with small parcels will be worried as they can no longer hold people to ransom. This is so important for Christchurch. To get the city up and running again we have to do something dramatic. It will bring smaller landholders to heel."

    Yes, down boy! Oh those little people and enterprises do threaten and clutter up the city don't they? Shame they are usually the things that make enough of a difference to make the city worth visiting, good luck with Alphaville or Stepford...

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7886 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    ..what would happen if all the children turned up to class and the teachers continued to teach in their schools as usual...

    ...maybe a 'management/staff' buyout
    - instant community owned charter schools!

    They'll sack the school board and appoint a commissioner, as happened in April when the far North Moerewa School continued classes in defiance of the Ministry of Education. This was a personal initiative of the Blairite import Secretary of Education Lesley Longstone. Her having been in NZ only since last November and never having visited a rural NZ school seems to be treated as a kind of asset by those driving the anti-democratic agenda. She appears to be valued because her total ignorance of such things gives her the necessary ruthlessness to attack a predominantly Māori school.

    Elsewhere, Gerry Brownlee appears to have attempted a little Paula Bennett style dirt-digging in a failed effort to discredit his Christchurch critics. From his past performance in attempting to silence Lianne Dalziel by releasing her personal information, it's standard Brownlee modus operandi.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4591 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Poole, in reply to Joe Wylie,

    From his past performance in attempting to silence Lianne Dalziel by releasing her personal information, it’s standard Brownlee modus operandi.

    I think you mean standard 5th National Government modus operandi. So that would make it a National Standard.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2007 • 4097 posts Report Reply

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