Speaker: What goes on tour
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Sofie, I'm sorry I was using "report" in two different senses in my last comment - in the last part I was referring to media reportage, not reporting to the police.
Most of my dealings with the cops have been in the context of civil disobedience of varying degrees (on my part). On the few occasions I have had the misfortune to be burgled/crashed into/had my garden set alight I've found the cops pretty good to deal with.
However the one time I was assaulted (by someone other than a police officer in the course of a protest) the police did not take it seriously at all, despite my half-a-law-degree talk, my insistence on being given a form to make a complaint to the PCA (as it was then), and the fact that one of the other people assaulted could not walk. They never laid charges against the group who assaulted us, and in fact served us with trespass notices instead. No matter how obnoxious we were being it didn't justify hurting someone (not me) so much that she had to get by on crutches for a week afterwards.
As for the bullshit rape allegations - perhaps if people knew their allegations were likely to be taken seriously they might be less likely to throw the rape word around when it wasn't warranted?
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PCA (as it was then),
So what's it called now? Sounds like your odds seem better than mine,although with age comes wisdom (I like to think):-). I wonder if the cops still have the same old stereotypes . I know tattoos were one of my dilemmas when dealing with police. Colour of skin also.
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I note this story tends to confirm my belief that the All Blacks do manage the off-field behaviour of the team better than the English do. Cowan's been given a last chance with conditions appropriate to his 'job' and his ongoing indiscretions. IMO, sacking him altogether wouldn't be appropriate both because of the nature of his mis-deeds but also because it would absolve the ABs from their responsibilities to him to get his sh*t together.
I still think Piri Weepu should be in the team but!
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IMO, sacking him altogether wouldn't be appropriate both because of the nature of his mis-deeds but also because it would absolve the ABs from their responsibilities to him to get his sh*t together.
Err... I don't think three D&D charges in as may weeks is really something any prudent employer would class as a trivial "mis-deed". And I'm sorry to say this, but WTF 'responsibility' do the All Blacks have regarding Cowan's alcohol abuse. I do take your point, Paul, but it's really dangerous if someone with substance abuse issues get any kind of enabling to rationalise anything other than TOTAL personal responsibility for their actions.
Cowan, if he has two working brain cells, should STFU and thank whatever deity he believes in that his career isn't over. There are plenty of occupations where his employer wouldn't -- and couldn't -- be quite so indulgent.
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Is it three D&D charges? I take your point however Craig.
Re the ABs "responsibility"; they have a residual responsibility, almost pastoral care, given the fame and attention granted along with the place on the bench. Perhaps I'm overstating it, but a 20-something year old with shite loads of dosh and significant adoration might need some help managing... particularly given that many of these blokes were in school only a few years back. Cowan's not entirely new to the scene, and certainly has had advice over the years since he was first selected (2004), but how would he cope if sacked? Cut from the squad perhaps, but his contract terminated? I guess there's a fine line between "indulgence" and support; I'm not suggesting the former.
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I don't think three D&D charges in as may weeks is really something any prudent employer would class as a trivial "mis-deed".
I think it's two in as many months.
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I think it's two in as many months.
Was there the trespass notice incident (as opposed to police) as mentioned in D-Scream?
And I'm not wanting to discount 'substance abuse', but I sometimes wonder about whether it's drink exacerbating anger/the belief that fisticuffs is an appropriate solution. Say like Hayden Roulston.
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Third incident here. No police involvement in this one.
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Third incident here. No police involvement in this one.
James: Thanks for that, and I stand corrected. And fair points well expressed at 7.01 Paul. I know I can come across as a bit (well, a lot) of a Puritan inquisitor where alcohol-related offending or plain assholery is concerned. But if you want to be viewed as a professional sportsman (and be paid accordingly) then you've inevitably got to accept expectations of professional conduct. Whether you consider it long overdue or 'political correctness gone mad', professional rugby and cricket seem to be getting that another round of well-lubricated bad press just isn't doing them any good. I'm pretty sure someone at Lion Nathan was on the phone after the six o'clock news, suggesting that Cowan shouldn't be photographed with a Steinlager logo across his chest for a while.
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I'ld just like to draw a little line in the sand between Cowan being a drunken asshole with an anger problem & the actions of the 4 English players.
I don't think he was set up, his photo ended up in the paper because they print it once a week anyway. This time though it was the front page not the back page.
Cantabs tamed Marshall, if Cowan f&*ks up again he should buy a ticket to France/Irelnad/Italy.
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I'm pretty sure someone at Lion Nathan was on the phone after the six o'clock news, suggesting that Cowan shouldn't be photographed with a Steinlager logo across his chest for a while.
Hah! I can imagine the phone calls that rapidly followed any coverage! I wonder how long before a brewery rep phoned Shand?
I'ld just like to draw a little line in the sand between Cowan being a drunken asshole with an anger problem & the actions of the 4 English players.
Precisely. It might be hopelessly optimistic of me, but I'd really like to think that the AB's apparent adoption of a 'no dickheads' policy will help in this situation. Cowan has to meet a reasonable standard; sort your sh*t out or fu*k off.
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Third incident here. No police involvement in this one.
And now it is three incidents apparently. He's been charged in relation to the incident that Lucky Mulipola just dealt with. 3 in 3 months, there must be a prize for that. Hopefully some of the senior All Blacks give him a good hazing.
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This interview is hilarious.
Jimmy, no drinking mate; not a drop. Now, could you just go over there and put on your steiny tracksuit and join the boys for the Lion Nathan-sponsored corporate event to launch Steinlager-classic?
But to be fair... The ABs management seemed to be taking all the right steps even if they do appear a little, ahem, compromised.
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There is no clearer domonstration of the gap between our Legal Sytem and the myth of a Justice Sytem than this.
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"I ask you, if your daughter was in this position, would you advise her to make a complaint?" Ms Hughes said.
Yes I would,As it was with the Tea Ropati case,her identity would be protected. She would be better to deal with it now than having the constant possibility of future speculation and discussions from unaware friends. and anything else which could traumatise her more.
Shep, What is legal and what is just has never been the same. I guess thats why some will take matters into their own hands -
Further discussion of that Stuff link can be found here and here.
I'm kind of glad you mentioned Tea Ropati's case Sofie. I find it upsetting seeing him and his wife on the front of the women's mags proclaiming his innocence, it must be so so much worse for his victim. No wonder the woman in this case has made a conscious choice to not complain to the police, having seen what happened in the Ropati case, in the Mt Maunganui case (even though they were convicted), to Louise Nicholas, etc etc ad nauseum (and ad infinitum). I would hope I would have the strength to complain, if it were me, but I can understand why so many don't.
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And here's another post on it here. Sorry, it's a Sunday morning, brain not fully functioning!
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It's becoming pretty clear that this woman is not in this for the publicity, or anything else as sordid. And I agree with my PA sisters that this has become a media beatup of the woman this all happened to. It makes me very, very angry and so, so sad that we are in 2008, and what has changed in attitudes to the rape and sexual violation of women? Very little, it would seem. Especially where world-class sportsmen are concerned.
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Well, I know it may be difficult for his woman but unless she does complain, she is kinda condoning the behaviour of said players by allowing them to get away with it and once again, nothing happens because it remains speculation. I am sorry but this annoys me because unless there is a complaint we accept that the police,media,etc need to change their attitude but how can they if noone complains. I would shout, and tell the world to watch out ,there are 4 English Rugby players that rape women. Name them Shame them,tell their wives.As with Louise Nicholas, her shouting has helped my perception of Rickards et al. By Tea Ropati being dragged through court, it was established he had a reputation. I now know what I think of him. But without being held accountable this goes under the carpet. They will visit again, and guys will sit around and say "How about that rugby eh?" Sisters need to be doing for themselves. Shouting works, I know.
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Oh, and then there is justice!
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I kind of agree with you Sofie, however it seems to me that this woman is complaining in a way that she is ok with at the moment, ie by sending her letter to the inquiry and releasing that information to the media. Yes she hasn't laid a complaint with the police, but maybe she will in the future - the detective involved has indicated that the case will remain open and they will accept a complaint at a later stage.
Staying silent is an understandable response, imho. Sorry to shamelessly promote again, but here's a post from one of my co-bloggers about a sexual assault she experienced, which covers why she didn't report to the police. I wish no one felt they had to stay silent, but I'm not going to further blame those who do.
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It may be hard to understand, Sofie, but this would become a hugely high profile case, and maybe she just isn't ready for that right now. I
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by sending her letter to the inquiry and releasing that information to the media. Yes she hasn't laid a complaint with the police, but maybe she will in the future - the detective involved has indicated that the case will remain open and they will accept a complaint at a later stage.
Okay and completely fair enough (it's her decision) but to suggest the media scrutiny problem and then to talk to the media,albeit via lawyer who then hits TV, I can't get my head around that. I just hope that it's not too late in the future for her or anyone else if she does decide to use the law. The law that will let her say it is not okay.
The guy she associated with willingly, had a duty of care. That in itself is the law.He was negligent. -
Okay and completely fair enough (it's her decision) but to suggest the media scrutiny problem and then to talk to the media,albeit via lawyer who then hits TV, I can't get my head around that. I just hope that it's not too late in the future for her or anyone else if she does decide to use the law. The law that will let her say it is not okay.
I fully understand her decision.
Sofie, this is a case which would go far beyond anything we in New Zealand understand as media attention.
Not only would the British press be all over it, they'd be doing so in a context where a New Zealand court's suppression order did not apply.
The UK papers (all available here via the internet) would not only name the victim, some of them would happily try and shame her too. They'd interview friends, boyfriends, family. They'd stake out her house. Any failing they found would be headlines. And, as we've seen already, these same journalists are quite happy to pass on lies.
I wouldn't subject anyone to that kind of trauma; much as I'd admire a woman with the courage to take it on. But I suspect this young woman has talked with Glenda Hughes (and there's no one I'd rather have on my side in a situation like this) and made the understandable decision to say her piece and try and get on with her life.
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I wouldn't subject anyone to that kind of trauma; much as I'd admire a woman with the courage to take it on..
ITA agree, and let's remember we're talking about The Sun here. Russell is being very generous indeed when he says they would "try and shame" her; if they decided to go on one of their moralistic jihads, I'd expect to painted as someone who makes the Whore of Babylon look like Mother Theresa. If they couldn't get her -- open season on her family, friends, everyone. And failing that -- make it up.
Sofie, I totally get and respect where you're coming from too, but how many ways, and in how many places, has this woman been called a blackmailing whore and a liar? In her position, I'd want to defend myself before I bit my tongue clean off. But facing the prospect of months of truly vile media coverage, and being put under what I'd fully expect to be aggressive cross-examination from the best junkyard dogs a lot of money could buy? I'd think more than twice about starting down that road.
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