THIS JUST IN

  • Russell Brown,

    And my source was pretty sure about it ... the Solictor General via the Attorney General's office will this afternoon decline permission for the police to charge the 12 with Terrorism Suppression Act offences. Firearms Act charges will be pursued, as they should, given my understanding of the evidence.

    That understanding leads me to think I don't particularly approve of what at least some of these people were saying and doing. But the system appears to agree that it wasn't terrorism.

    Ironically, much of the evidence presented in closed court is probably inadmissable on the firearms charges, so we may never get to hear it.

    So: the right result; and a substantial embarrassment for the New Zealand Police?

    PS: It may be that my source is wholly or partially wrong about this, and that will be a matter of my embarrassment. C'est la vie ...

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22227 posts Report Reply

385 Responses

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  • Graeme Edgeler,

    Ironically, much of the evidence presented in closed court is probably inadmissible

    That's not ironic. That's exactly why it would be heard in closed court.

    Wellington, New Zealand • Since Nov 2006 • 3185 posts Report Reply

  • merc,

    Kids in TV land, you been duped.

    Since Dec 2006 • 2471 posts Report Reply

  • Margaret B,

    Um, wow!

    Thanks so much for posting this Russell. I hope it is correct!

    Since Oct 2007 • 59 posts Report Reply

  • Dave Waugh,

    Good to see the system working, but I suspect this is still going to be spun into lala land by every bugger with an anti state grudge. :o(

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 97 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson,

    LOL, looks like my fizzout theory is coming true.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10504 posts Report Reply

  • Gareth Ward,

    Ironically, much of the evidence presented in closed court is probably inadmissable on the firearms charges, so we may never get to hear it.

    Will be interesting to see how much of this is revealed regardless, whether it be through police press conference (not sure how much they can legally say) or media leak.
    Just so that the police can deflect criticism and let everyone know why they did this in the first place...

    Auckland, NZ • Since Mar 2007 • 1727 posts Report Reply

  • Michael Fitzgerald,

    Dave the Judicial system might be working (if this isn't a huge tease) but there are a few areas of the Govt clearly at fault what ever the outcome:
    PM & Police hysteria
    Police Actions upon Ruatoki - detention, photos, & what happened with the school bus?
    Who under took the Police invasion of Ruatoki & do we need them as it crosses over the SAS CTAGs role
    Serindiptiy of the Raids & TSA going before Parliment
    Will Broad or White take the honours or the chop?
    Police expenditure for possible firearms charges compared to - I don't know - keeping the convicted criminals inside. Although I see the prison system as largely a waste of time for the bulk of prisoners. Convicted axe murderers to remain in prison is the right place for them.

    Since May 2007 • 631 posts Report Reply

  • Danyl Mclauchlan,

    PM & Police hysteria
    Police Actions upon Ruatoki - detention, photos, & what happened with the school bus?
    Who under took the Police invasion of Ruatoki & do we need them as it crosses over the SAS CTAGs role
    Serindiptiy of the Raids & TSA going before Parliment
    Will Broad or White take the honours or the chop?

    Well I'm no fancy big city psychic but my prediction is that the police will undertake a very careful investigation of themselves and find that all individuals involved were completely blameless. The problem will be revealed to be with some of their policies and procedures and a review will be undertaken to, uh, review them.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 927 posts Report Reply

  • Michael Fitzgerald,

    Agreed Danyl & that's gotta be part if not at the core of the problem

    Since May 2007 • 631 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Michael, I'm hoping that if evidence does eventually emerge that presents some of those involved in a bad light, terrorists or not, that you will find time for a word of criticism for them too ...

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22227 posts Report Reply

  • Heather Gaye,

    I'm really concerned that such a decision will be used to gloss over valid reservations about the TSA amendments: "no innocent activists were charged with terrorism, therefore the law works, trust us".

    Morningside • Since Nov 2006 • 532 posts Report Reply

  • Stephen Judd,

    Me too, Heather.

    But at least in an operational though not legal sense it would set a good precedent.

    The online Herald says there will be an official announcement at 4 PM.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 3119 posts Report Reply

  • Margaret B,

    Thanks for the timing update Stephen, much appreciated (and no doubt also by my employer, as I have been skimming various sites for more news since the clock hit 12.01...)

    Since Oct 2007 • 59 posts Report Reply

  • Finn Higgins,

    Wellington • Since Apr 2007 • 209 posts Report Reply

  • Margaret B,

    Thanks so much Finn, I am without a radio and Scoop only has a headline with no detail.

    Wohooo!

    Since Oct 2007 • 59 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson,

    LOL, Herald is there, but with a broken link.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10504 posts Report Reply

  • Finn Higgins,

    Ben, they do that all the time. Try looking at them late at night or early morning when the content is going up - I swear they've got a terminally broken CMS.

    Their link is working now, but they have the cheeky timestamp of "4:03" on it. Yeah right, it wasn't there before ten past...

    Wellington • Since Apr 2007 • 209 posts Report Reply

  • Robyn Gallagher,

    The Herald, but, man, that's old news.

    Raglan • Since Nov 2006 • 1946 posts Report Reply

  • Idiot Savant,

    Meanwhile, two parties (the Greens and Maori party?) have reportedly requested an urgent debate on the matter.

    Maybe after the debate on the Appropriations bill is done...

    Palmerston North • Since Nov 2006 • 1704 posts Report Reply

  • simon g,

    Herald headline:

    "Police drop all terror related charges". A decision by the Commissioner-solicitor-general?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1213 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson,

    Actually it sounds like even more of a fizzout than I thought. No drugs charges...just firearms.

    I do think hoarding a bunch of illegal firearms is criminal behaviour. Obviously I wonder what they were going to do with them. But terrorism it ain't (yet).

    Now we can start the fireworks over why they are still in remand.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10504 posts Report Reply

  • InternationalObserver,

    David Collins QC announced his decision just after 4pm.

    "The Terrorism Suppression Act legislation is unneccesarily complex, incoherent and as a result almost impossible to apply to the domestic circumstances observed by the police in this case," the Solicitor-General said.

    "Some may try to interpret my decision as a criticism of the police. Nothing could be further from the truth."

    He said he believed the police had sufficient and proper basis for investigating the activities in question.

    So there you have it. The Police did no wrong, the fault lies with the current Terrorsim legislation. Gee, if only our Politicians would give the Authorities the tools they need to do the job that needs to be done ... hmmm, what a shame there's no new legislation pending ...

    Since Jun 2007 • 909 posts Report Reply

  • simon g,

    My please-make-me-eat-humble-pie-later rant:

    Don't you just know that the 7 pm TV shows are going to devote the allotted seven minutes to this, and then go on to the musical pets after the break? And then it's the weekend, so that'll be that. Native Affairs or Marae will do much more, but that's little comfort.

    This. Is. A. Big. Story.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1213 posts Report Reply

  • Margaret B,

    Well hopefully the ramifications of this (in a smaller sense) will be that those who have High Court bail hearings tomorrow will be bailed, and the rest can re-apply, and then we shall just see about what other charges the police bring, if any. I assume they can still choose to add other charges?

    Since Oct 2007 • 59 posts Report Reply

  • Idiot Savant,

    So there you have it. The Police did no wrong, the fault lies with the current Terrorsim legislation. Gee, if only our Politicians would give the Authorities the tools they need to do the job that needs to be done ... hmmm, what a shame there's no new legislation pending ...

    Though to be fair, that legislation wouldn't have made it easier to prosecute an undesignated group. The "problem" is that the law was aimed primarily at designated, foreign groups, and was never intended to be used domestically.

    Palmerston North • Since Nov 2006 • 1704 posts Report Reply

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