Posts by chris
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Hard News: The positive option of Red Peak, in reply to Steve Barnes,
I see what happens when a thing that doesn’t have potential to save money by most probably eliminating the need for a second referendum is rushed on the basis that it’s easier for people to get behind a colourful image than a reconfiguration of approach.
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Hard News: The positive option of Red Peak, in reply to linger,
I'm totally feeling that Linger. Stacy Kirk takes things to the 6th ray:
While my dislike for Red Peak runs about as deep as the tectonic plates that don't form the supposed story behind the flag, including it in the referendum was the right decision.
Democracy does sometimes win. And it wins when people take it seriously.
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The Greens ‘did’ something, which is hard to do in opposition
That’s a bold spin.
A flag designer who dipped out on the shortlist claims to have conned the Red Peak petition, signing up as broadcasters Mike Hosking, Duncan Garner and Paul Henry and NZ First leader Winston Peters.
Grant McLachlan has provided evidence to prove his claim, with video footage showing him repeatedly signing up as himself and the four household names.
[…]
In a stunt designed to undermine the petition, Mr McLachlan said he signed up 12 times before adding Garner, Henry, Hosking and Mr Peters to the petition.
Red Peak will cost $380,000 to go on ballot
The inclusion of Red Peak would cost another $380,000, with the development and testing of changes to the vote processing system set to cost $100,000.
Redesigning, reprinting and retranslating materials about enrolment and voting that referenced four voting options would cost $280,000.
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Hard News: The positive option of Red Peak, in reply to Bart Janssen,
The T-shirt analogy is false.
With the T-shirt you are the only person wearing it, you are not deciding for the entire population which T-shirt they will wear.
With the T-shirt you are spending your personal income not the income of the entire country.
Bad analogy is bad.
I did what I could within George’s frame of reference to correct his misinterpretation of Labour’s proposed selection process, which I feel is important and has been widely misrepresented and misunderstood. ‘You’ can be singular or plural, there was no mention of any financial transaction and it’s not uncommon to use the singular to refer to items in a uniform:
The All Blacks jersey for the 2015 Rugby World Cup pays homage to the ‘Originals’ All Blacks team, but is the most technologically advanced yet, maker adidas says.
An alternative interpretation of this sentence could equate to a very chilly time indeed for the bulk of our lads.
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Field Theory: It's about time, in reply to Peter Darlington,
Yeh, he likes the Silver Fern flag, of course he does. Probably votes National as well
The timing and location (RWC team announcement/The Beehive) of those statements and the fact that he’s the captain/ spokesman of a team that the nation is expected to support probably didn’t help much there.
If it were Clyde rather than James making the statement, different story.
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These are reasonable points David.
Personally, up until Russel Norman’s seppuku I was 100% likely to have given the Greens my party vote in 2017, I’m less than enamoured with what I’ve seen over the last two months, my position is better expressed in the Gordon Campbell article that Deborah linked to over the page:
It is not as though the Greens came up with a novel, deal-breaking position: instead, it has simply delivered the government the escape route that it wanted, on terms where it is agreeing to enable John Key to block Labour’s attempt to stop more money being wasted on a second referendum in March. Shaw has spent all year denying the allegations that he’s really a closet Nat in disguise. Yesterday’s effort won’t help on that score.
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Hard News: The positive option of Red Peak, in reply to George Darroch,
Andrew Little said if the answer was no, then the money set aside for the 2nd referendum won’t be spent.
This was part of Labour's proposed bill.
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Hard News: The positive option of Red Peak, in reply to George Darroch,
That satisfies you if you want the existing alternative.
It satisfies me because I don’t like any of the alternatives presented and want the status quo. If on the other hand you want one of the alternatives then Labour’s proposal didn’t alter the outcome except that any change could be vetoed in the first referendum by a majority who have no confidence in the alternatives. Read the link; the second referendum remained the same.
Andrew Little said if the answer was no, then the money set aside for the 2nd referendum won’t be spent.
If it’s yes, then the winner of the five designs will go up against the current flag early next year.
The proposed 'yes' vote was not conclusive.
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Hard News: The positive option of Red Peak, in reply to George Darroch,
Let’s explain by way of example: I ask you if you want a new t-shirt you’ll wear everywhere. Your existing t-shirt is old but comfortable. You ask which one, and you’re told that you have to decide if you want it before you’ll be told. A non-preferential yes/no process is designed to produce a no, and Labour know this.
I ask you if you want a new t-shirt you’ll wear everywhere. Your existing t-shirt is old but comfortable. I show you the choices, you can then decide to keep your existing T-shirt as well as making a choice for an alternative. If you overwhelmingly don’t want to change I’ll quit it, if you quite like one of the alternatives you can trial it for a few months with the option to make your final decision in March. That’s what Labour proposed.
It is my firm understanding that the referendum would be held anyway, since it was already the subject of legislation. And on that basis, claims about cost and complication are highly disingenuous
Thanks George, I thought that there might be a way for our Government to change legislation in that kind of scenario.
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Hard News: The positive option of Red Peak, in reply to ,
Thank you evangelical Green Party for calling theater; look over here at us, we have this other devine popular thing, that makes us look more grown up than the Labour Party :-(
The Greens were presented with the option of either showing solidarity with Labour’s hypothetical proposal which could have potentially saved millions of pages of paper, litres of ink and petrol and kilowatts of electricity or the chance to satisfy a tiny movement running a lucrative fundraising campaign whose petitioned numbers amounted to about 20% of the party’s popular vote.
While they have remained true to their colour in assuming this ideological transgression will not lose them lustre among their more environmentally minded supporters and although they’ve exhibited just how green Labour/National’s hogging of the limelight has made them feel, unsubstantiated reports hint that by the time the next election rolls around they will have finalised this rebranding exercise, standing as The Yellows.