Posts by Simon Grigg
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Only because someone is fixin to sue you, surely?
Not at all....long before the threat of legal action for sampling there was a rush to find the most obscure sample you could. It was about the cool factor
See Robin S above. Because it is not property and does not behave like property. IP does not work that way!
I have, and I don't think Robin covers it.
Lyndon, you sound like someone saying that slaves cannot be freed. The evolution of of the concept of intellectual property (note the word property in the term) is evidence that it can and has evolved and can evolve further. And that evolution is happening bit by bit in a variety of ways (witness the new recording artists coalition in the UK, the EU moves earlier this year, and the relentless challenges in Californian courts to the concept of assignment).
It wasn't long ago when it was perfectly legal to go to a gig, record it and release that recording (you only had to pay the mechanical royalty..writers, not performers) in many countries, Australia included. That evolved after much argument that the performance was essentially in the public domain because of it's public performance.
Physicality...well take a CD / record..there are several copyrights. There is the cover artwork which stands separate to the contents. The contents are broken down into two copyrights
a) the song as written. This is an interesting copyright because it already covers many of Robin's concerns. Once a song is released it is partially already in the pubic domain. Once the writer has given permission for it's release anyone anywhere can then perform it forever and ever. They have no need to track down the writer and are not limited by that, as they pay the performance fee, or at least the producer of the recording does, to a society which is globally linked and it is their job to track down the writer. If they cannot then the monies go into what is called a Control Account and if the writer cannot be found after a period that then goes, I think by law, into the consolidated fund..back to society. It's evolved over the years, works well and allows things like adaptation, parody and the like and continues to evolve largely under the direction of the writers themselves. That covers the 'idea' IP.
b) the other copyright, the one I think of most concern to Rob, is the execution of the idea..the recording. This is a physical act, and produces a physical object with inherent value..much like building a house or a car, using an idea or a series of ideas. It has a physical outcome..the recording, and I've yet to hear anyone hear satisfactorily explain why that physical object differs from any car or house created from an idea. Much physical property evolves from an idea. I understand that you are still left with the recording no matter how many copies are made, but that original physical property still has value only if others don't have the right to offer exact facsimiles of your property.And that is evolving too, witness that Lennon case (dunno why it's news now..the landmark aspect of it was the legal decision some months back) which adds a fair use add-on to the concept of the ownership of the physical master. That's the beginning of something which must eventually affect the sampling industry...fair usage must and will evolve there too to fix that often unfair minefield (and I'm sure The Verve and many others will agree)
Rob..the Elvis masters have just been pulled back into copyright in Europe I think, or are about to be, by the evolution of the EU copyright law which I understand is retrospective.
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Possibly that's some motivation (disclaimer: I don't listen to hip-hop), but may not evoking memories of that other track in listeners minds be a useful goal also?
I'm reading this with some fascination (the whole thread that is) and refraining from comment partially because I don't have the time to be diverted right now (although I admit to having some sympathy for Rob's arguments and have yet to see any tangible argument as to why IP cannot evolve into a a right somewhat akin to property..that's the way it is and has been is no argument and there is a physicality to the IP that is in my zone of interest which is being ignored) but it's worth noting that, aside from the cheesier end of hip hop, the more obscure the sample the better is the rule usually.
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In these times the smear that has the most legs is not that Obama is black, it is that Obama is wholly supportive of giving $700billion dollars to rich pricks. The New Yorker is a magazine dedicated to the sophisticated tastes of some of the richest pricks in the country and its endorsement of Obama reinforces this smear. And whilst the association itself is damaging, the indentity group response it shall probably cause amoung certain Obama supporters is going to increase that damage.
If this rather desperate stretch of logic and cries of 'palling with terrorists' is all the GOP has left, then Obama is indeed on a roll.
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The winners are Paul Rose
You mean Paul doesn't get a ticket by rights? After his bloody contribution to NZ music over the years....a wee bit shocking that is.
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And Angus, just as a final comment on this. I know you're having problems understanding polling beyond the simple figures, but maybe this will help:
Our model has now more or less fully caught up with Obama's "Lehman Leap", and so he cannot expect too many more gains from inertia alone.
Seemingly this rather well regarded pollster has a handle on the idea of lag, that you are having issues with...who to trust on this, you or him?
Most tracking polls also carry a warning about this is you read through their methology or results notes.
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I said "IF" the Palin story becomes the central story of this election and buries "the issues - economy, climate, Iraq - to minor importance" that McCain will win.
Oh for gods sake Angus, let it go. All these things are quite clearly in play, including Palin, and on those Obama is rocketing right now. Please pay attention, and please don't put words in my mouth to cover your own missteps and inability to grasp rather easy discussion points.
This will negatively impact Obama and McCain might still win.
But 7 days ago you were definitively say that 'McCain Will Win" and even touting a percentage?
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And Raines is not just a big Obama guy, but an Obama campaign advisor
Twaddle James, and everyone is saying that apart from the McCain camp, who once again have their pants down caught making things up. He was and is no such thing.
When you factor that into your spiel, and then, as Danielle says, throw in your Clinton (and Carter) are responsible for everything loop, I think I'd rather leave your factors out and get my fundamentals on the US economy from someone a little more reliably even than you. Thanks anyway.
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And...a bit of a eye opener Re: McCain's FP expertise:
To recap, tonight we've been discussing Sen. McCain's bizarre interview in which he appeared not to know who Spanish Prime Minister Zapatero was and, in an effort to wing it, assumed he must be another left-wing, anti-American leader from Latin America. In the Spanish press analysis of the interview, at least, many seem uncertain whether McCain even knows where Spain is, though that strikes me as a bit excessive.
Just how this will get played in the American press will be interesting to see because it cuts to two of McCain's key vulnerabilities -- the first being his apparently rather shaky foreign policy experience if can't identify the leader of a major NATO ally and the second being what I guess we would call declining mental acuity.
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But I confess, I'm puzzled about what Angus and Simon are actually arguing about.
I agree with you pretty much Russell but I guess the discussion needs a d) as well: that the sheen has also gone off McCain as a result of b), she is turning into a GOP negative for a variety of reason. There is a reflection factor that Angus refuses to see, and the bounce for McCain, or at least the beginnings of it quite clearly pre-date the financial crash.
It was, after all only three days back, after the beginnings of the financial turmoil which Angus blames the poll turn on, when he, quite confidently said:
McCain will win
Hell, but I'm, very excitedly, on a plane back to China in about two hours, so what do I care....
I'm very wary of that CBS / NYT figure btw...it feels slightly unreal.
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I appreciate that you think that Obama is the most credible of candidates, but your opinion of Obama's credibility is exceptional in every sense of the word.
Angus stomps his feet and goes 'it ain't true it ain't true", which seems to be about the sum of these same tired arguments you loop day after day. If I've gone to 'long lengths to denigrate', tell my why I'm wrong rather than tossing out puerile 'koskid koolaid' lines you clearly pinched from some other site..it just makes you look silly.
BS it is not an "immovable fact", the higher profile the event the smaller the lag. 11-09-01 and 20-03-03 declaration of war on Iraq
read, think, Angus...the full effect, even on those post 9/11 figures, which were far more dramatic events, in terms of looping of images over and over again on EVERY bit of TV real estate 24/7 were not shown for over a week afterwards. It kinda makes my point. That the effect, even with that sort of coverage, which was way, way, way more than the Lehman crash, and far, far, far more emotionally wrenching, took a few days, then that is proof.
I'll grant you that there was a jump on the 20th of March but there was a massive shift to war footing in the week building up to that date and troops were ready to go for quite some period prior to the invasion. The buildup to war always brings a surge.
Think about it.