Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: The strange story arc

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  • jon_knox,

    And that applies to everyone else too.

    True. Similarly I heard an interview with one of the Anglican Bishops across the ditch who supports the idea of having blasphemy laws abolished.

    Belgium • Since Nov 2006 • 464 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie,

    They are not being funded to prosletyse.

    Sure Craig, no more than you're being paid to preach. What concerns me is the way the Salvos have allowed themselves to become involved in the justice system in places such as the US, with Army members acting in some states as unqualified de facto probation officers. A few years back in Florida, for example, a teenager was placed under the restrictive supervision of a rank and file Army member after being found guilty by a local elected judge of having produced an 'obscene' cartoon. If seems the kid's work had offended the judge's political sensibilities.

    If the Salvos don't have a problem with lending their 'Christian values' to something that's plainly not a welfare issue then they should, just as they should never have become involved with John Howard's politically cynical manipulation of Australia's drug problem. Major Brian Watters is a total piece of work, and hardly representative of the attitudes of those few Army members that it's been my privilege to know.

    Anyway, it's late. If it wasn't for your assurance that the Sallies have the plght of the needy under control I'd be wondering why you're prancing your high horse around the blogs, rather than being out there on the mean streets in your Mother Theresa getup.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4512 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    And just to cheer things up no end, David Cameron's son Ivan died this evening

    David Cameron's son Ivan, who was severely disabled, died early this morning after being suddenly taken ill overnight, the Conservative party announced today.

    A party spokesman announced the news "with great sadness" and appealed to the media to respect the family's privacy. Gordon Brown said the "thoughts and prayers of the whole country" would be with the Camerons.

    The normal prime minister's questions has been cancelled and instead at 12pm Brown and other senior politicians are expected to offer further condolences in the Commons chamber.

    Ivan, who was six and the eldest of Cameron's three children, needed constant care as a result of the severe epilepsy and cerebral palsy he had had since birth.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12359 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    Joe:

    I've given up the (dubious) pleasure of troll-baiting on Kiwiblog for Lent, and have no interest in starting up with you. Still, hope you feel better because I'm at a loss what that bile-dump was meant to achieve.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12359 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie,

    Craig,
    Your moral superiority - to me. at least - is beyond doubt. I'm only disappointed that, rather than deliver yet another of those pieces that helps make PAS such an eminently visitable place, you've chosen once again to simply draw attention to what an exemplary fellow you are.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4512 posts Report Reply

  • Hilary Stace,

    David Cameron's experience as a parent of a disabled son has made him a very strong supporter of the NHS and publicly funded health and disability services. Interestingly, Gordon Brown and his wife also had a baby who died, and have a son with cystic fibrosis.

    Sorry, but I don't see these stories as tragedies.Sure, it is very very sad for those left behind, but both political men have also talked about the incredible pleasure their children have also given them.

    What is really worth celebrating is that these are public stories. Only a generation ago having a disabled child was seen as a tragic shameful thing and the parents urged to institutionalise and forgot their child.

    That today powerful male politicians can talk about their disabled children openly and with such affection, normalises disability and is hugely significant.

    Wgtn • Since Jun 2008 • 3104 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    Joe:

    What part of "quit fucking trolling" don't you understand? I've no problem with religious groups contracting to provide social services, but with pretty reasonable and strict provisos attached. I'd call that pragmatism -- you don't have to be a pious Anglican church lady to say the Auckland City Mission does some pretty valuable work, and deserves all the support it can get. And you sure don't have to sign up to every public policy or doctrinal position the Anglican Church takes to do so.

    Now, if you want to dump the flambé troll roast and bring a rational and froth-free dissent to the table instead, be my guest. But the Redbaiter impersonation is boring and obnoxious.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12359 posts Report Reply

  • Jan Farr,

    rational and froth-free dissent

    Craig - I don't wish to take sides in this fascinating stoush - but is rational and frothfree how you see yourself?

    Carterton • Since Apr 2008 • 395 posts Report Reply

  • Jan Farr,

    Isn't the Police Association a union? They get a lot of TV coverage. And, I might add, you always know what Greg O'Connor is going to say, regardless of what facts are known, so it seems a little pointless.

    This is an interesting point Gordon. The nature of the media is to pigeon hole 'leaders' (as Russell seems to be doing on Media 7 tonight). The nature of the union movement is much more about its members. There are real stories - but they usually belong to the vulnerable - hence the point of joining together to deal with those issues. So union members' organisations are put through the media sieve and all you get are the big blobs - the same old faces - even the same same, old old old faces. It's like saying that you've seen a whale many times so you know all about ocean life.

    Carterton • Since Apr 2008 • 395 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    Craig - I don't wish to take sides in this fascinating stoush - but is rational and frothfree how you see yourself?

    Jan: Not always -- but I'll take ownership for my misconduct and not anyone else's. And I'll leave it there.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12359 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    Isn't the Police Association a union? They get a lot of TV coverage. And, I might add, you always know what Greg O'Connor is going to say, regardless of what facts are known, so it seems a little pointless.

    Yes, and they do get a lot of coverage. I suspect that relates to two reasons: 1. They're police, respected profession, voice of authority etc. But also 2. It's not just a Union, it's a professional body, like a medical or legal one. Just slightly unusual in that all its members are employed by the one employer.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6241 posts Report Reply

  • linger,

    "It's in your head" (x2)

    Ah, *another* argument apparently taking place only in both protagonists' heads. Where's Ben Wilson when you need him?

    Mark: She lives, she will die. That much is fact. What happens in between or, more importantly, what you know about it is up to her and her publicist.

    Stephen: you don't know the meaning of "or".

    Try reading it here as "or rather"; Mark is actually downplaying the first (overly general) statement in favour of a more accurate one. You could possibly (as Stephen did) take the referent of "what happens in between" to include absolutely everything, whether or not it's under the control of the named individuals concerned -- but that is probably an overinterpretation; in the context of the following clause, "what she does" seems intended. Thus, if you interpret the paragraph as a whole , Mark's message is reasonably clear, and entirely consistent with his later stated intentions.
    Possibly Stephen's expectations were thrown off balance by the (deliberate) bluntness of Mark's opening comment "she will die", which is certainly [albeit regrettably] factually correct, but its brevity may come off as callousness.

    (Relax, I'm not about to start parsing Craig & Joe.)

    Tokyo • Since Apr 2007 • 1736 posts Report Reply

  • Jan Farr,

    The Police Association is a stand-alone organisation - not connected to the rest of the trade union movement. They don't actually claim to be a union, but to be 'a trade union style organisation based on the model provided by Australian Police Associations.' (Go to 'Who are we' for interesting history).

    Carterton • Since Apr 2008 • 395 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    NO LONGER ON FREE TO AIR TV!

    So you now have to pay to watch an extended promotional film for the movie industry?

    They're bloody clever, those media companies. I'm surprised they find it so hard to make money...

    You can download it from Pirate Bay.
    I love the smell of irony in the morning.
    :-)

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • Joe Wylie,

    Now, if you want to dump the flambé troll roast and bring a rational and froth-free dissent to the table instead, be my guest. But the Redbaiter impersonation is boring and obnoxious.

    Boring, Craig? I've no recollection of undertaking to provide you with entertainment.

    Assuming that swollen ego has receded to the point where it no longer afflicts your reading skills, I'll briefly restate my point, which you've hardly refuted:

    The Salvation Army have, probably to a greater degree than any church which has received state funding to administer social welfare, used the opportunity to advance a moral position. While this has taken place mainly in the US and Australia, they're an international organisation. I provided further examples by way of agreeing with Hilary's position. That's all.

    flat earth • Since Jan 2007 • 4512 posts Report Reply

  • Mark Harris,

    Thank you, linger. Well said.

    Waikanae • Since Jul 2008 • 1343 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    Assuming that swollen ego has receded to the point where it no longer afflicts your reading skills, I'll briefly restate my point,

    QFT and get to it, Joe. It's not that hard.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12359 posts Report Reply

  • Jan Farr,

    Russell: I've just watched Media 7. The union stuff was great. I was wrong. It was sensible to go from where most people are - I had no idea nobody knew who Helen Kelly was. Mind you if you'd asked the same question in Wellington you might have got a different answer. Nice to have Ken's past and Laila's sharp analysis of both past and present and Graeme Hunt, who was able entertainingly to cover both the media's industrially-savvy past and its current industrial ignorance. I also recognise that apart from Media 7's intention to inform it also has to entertain and you probably can't do that with a cast of strangers.

    Carterton • Since Apr 2008 • 395 posts Report Reply

  • jon_knox,

    Coincidentally I've just listened (coz they offer the pod as both Audio & Video) to the Media7 Science reporting piece and gone looking to see if Ben Goldacre has made available his thoughts on Science & the Media in podcast form. Ben aint so keen on mere hacks doing science reporting, which is not to say he's against specialist reporters covering science.

    Anyway I see Ben has got involved in the Social Networking causes brain rewiring issue...which was also a story that the NZ Herald had picked up.

    So Ben participated in a discussion on Newsnight.

    Belgium • Since Nov 2006 • 464 posts Report Reply

  • Sam F,

    Bet this has been posted elsewhere already, but it's over now.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1607 posts Report Reply

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