No big as in getting any traction beyond a niche and a media response. There were big niches and underground scenes in many cities but, unlike much of the rest of the world where punk caused huge change in the mainstream musical landscape after 1977, the closest the US got to that before Nirvana provided an, acceptable to FM and college radio, half way point between stadium rock and punk was Billy Joel putting on a narrow tie
I'm not so sure whether this was specific to the US Simon. Firstly Whip it was a huge international hit (how punk it is is debatable). Secondly that's the only 'punk' I heard for the subsequent 10 years growing up in provincial New Zealand, excluding that 'Should I stay or should I go' jeans ad. And that's definitely not for want of trying to find fresh music. We were simply smothered by classic hits and easy listening.
Obviously having not been born in time to enjoy it, it's hard to grasp the crossover, with only literature and output as sign posts. Certainly can't hear the seachange.
The Village People
Not Epstein. Effective as he was, he worked in a department store, and I'm not sure he had more creative input than putting the band in suits.
To be fair he was set up as boss of the music dept he ran which was so successful they opened a music shop and installed him as boss, he sacked Pete Best, he shopped their demo round for a record deal, he dressed them up, kept John's marriage secret.
But yes Russell, you are right, good promoter but... Not really in the same league in terms of cultural importance, except in terms of the product he was attached to. John Agrees.
But he certainly didn't package us the way they say he packaged us. He was good at his job, but to an extent he wasn't the greatest businessman. He was theatrical and he believed."
I'd also see him as one of a series of brilliant, devious and opportunistic British managers and pop star manufacturers that goes from Brian Epstein to McLaren to Tony Wilson to Simon Cowell
I've always felt Mclaren to be Pop Music as Warhol was to art, I'd definitely equated him with Epstein but never with Cowell (who I've never really liked). Nice connection philipmatthews, you've put Simon Cowell in a context I can appreciate.
is it a direct line from Sid Vicious to Susan Boyle?
I've been wondering lately if there's a direct line from Danny Boyle to Susan Boyle. Something in those eyebrows.
Top notch post Russell. Imagining you negotiating that handshake brings a smile.
It's that bad? Guess it'll have to stay hidden then.
They wanted debate from a video.
If Madonna had done it, she'd have won an award. I guess for all of us there has to come a point when we stop incredulously admiring the kids' creative responses to this crazy world and begin imposing our own generation's version of "that's the the devil's music". A-
we have been talking about was especially disgusting - ...or this thread would be empty
Female Bodybuilding is empty
and the clip would still be online.
the power of popular opinion, to shame groups into self-censorship, is a victory of sorts, I'm sure, to some.
I can't disagree with either of you Jeremy or Sacha, I simply felt that there may be some kind of causal relationship between these ads and the inclination to make such a video, which has left me pondering which Government minster or department back in the day thought Clockwork Orange style classical conditioning would work without the nausea drugs and Beethoven. That's pretty radical aye. Especially considering most people are watching these adverts from Lazy-boys, with all manner of conveniences at hand. So we equate alcohol fueled calamities with domestic comfort? Surely Pavlov would have found a couple flaws in this experiment...
misogyny in a public service ad is more insidious for its unthinking presumption
I've been looking for hard scientific evidence to justify this kind of advertising, but I didn't find much that really supports it. All the conditioning experiments I found involved additional stimulus.
It's a ludicrous thing to say. Being familiar with the ilk what would have voted him in, I'm not surprised.