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Speaker: KICK IT! Goodbye England's Rose (Lion, whatever)

72 Responses

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  • Naly D,

    The England v Germany rivalry is an interesting one. I had a German homestay student with me at the last world cup, and he repeatedly said that Germans don't really care about the English games more than that they have to win to progress. He said that the teams Germany really sees as rivals are the Netherlands and Italy.

    Wellington • Since Sep 2008 • 307 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    I get why Italy (they never beat us in a world cup) but I can't fathom why the Netherlands. Although I can see why the Dutch would want to stick it to the Germans, no question.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7383 posts Report Reply

  • Hadyn Green,

    I think they are really proud about beating them

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 2081 posts Report Reply

  • Peter Darlington,

    Don't forget, before today the last World Cup meeting between England & Germany was 1990. And the one before that was 1970 (a pattern!), so there aren't exactly a lot of precedents to obsess upon. Sure there's a the Euro's and a bit of history there but still.

    I don't fully buy the line that the rivalry's not important to the Germans either. They've never fully accepted the '66 win and there'll be mad rejoicing tonight, especially about the disallowed goal which will be seen as pure karma for the unjust (in their eyes) Hurst goal.

    Nelson • Since Nov 2006 • 889 posts Report Reply

  • Jonty,

    <So full of dread and self-doubt when in the game..>

    But arrogance before the game. Remember Rooney's cocky remark that England's B team could beat Algeria even on a bad day? And then they struggled to hold them to a 1-1 draw. My support was with the Germans -- cool, sharp, attacking play -- a delight to watch every time they had the ball. They deserved the win. Even had Lampard's goal been allowed they would still have gone down.

    Katikati • Since Mar 2007 • 101 posts Report Reply

  • Hadyn Green,

    I noticed someone on twitter last night (well, very early this morning) noted that had the goal been allowed, England's attack may have slackened because they would stop searching for the equaliser (or winner)

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 2081 posts Report Reply

  • Peter Darlington,

    But arrogance before the game. Remember Rooney's cocky remark that England's B team could beat Algeria even on a bad day?

    At least David James was right yesterday when he said there was no way the game was going to go to penalties.

    y support was with the Germans -- cool, sharp, attacking play -- a delight to watch every time they had the ball.

    I know, it wasn't like watching a German team at all.

    Nelson • Since Nov 2006 • 889 posts Report Reply

  • Tom Semmens,

    Hah! The All Whites would never have conceded four goals.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1810 posts Report Reply

  • 3410,

    Yet another glorious English victory cruelly stolen away by the fickle hands of fate!
    ;)

    Auckland • Since Jan 2007 • 2618 posts Report Reply

  • Robert van Bakel,

    giovanni tiso! In 1974 the great Dutch side, playing a game they invented known as 'total football', and led by the then, greatest player in the world, Johan Cruyff lost 2-1 to Germany in the final. The rivalry goes beyond this, to past generations. Do you know why the Dutch are so proficient in English? The reason is simple, they must learn a second European language at school. They hate the Germans, for obvious reasons, and the French, (think Belgium on the verge of being two countries).

    In football, the Germans wisely understand that England are, and have been for some time, mediocre. The Dutch is whom they, the Brazilians, and the Argentinians worry about: so small, so few people, and yet they constantly punch above their weight: aaah, remember 1988.

    China • Since Jul 2008 • 12 posts Report Reply

  • Jonty,

    <Yet another glorious English victory cruelly stolen away by the fickle hands of fate!>

    But it wasn't supposed to happen like that! The UK gutter press said so .. you know, how they whip up the populace into a frenzy of wartime memories -- how we beat the Bosch and all that.

    Katikati • Since Mar 2007 • 101 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    They hate the Germans, for obvious reasons, and the French, (think Belgium on the verge of being two countries).

    I get why the Dutch hate the Germans. But Germany only lost against the Netherlands in 88 - it seems a thin foundation to build hate upon.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7383 posts Report Reply

  • Tom Semmens,

    how we beat the Bosch and all that.

    We were at war with an automotive replacement parts and accessories company?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1810 posts Report Reply

  • BlairMacca,

    But it wasn't supposed to happen like that! The UK gutter press said so .. you know, how they whip up the populace into a frenzy of wartime memories -- how we beat the Bosch and all that

    The wartime analogy doesn't really make sense, unless it was Germany vs England+USA+Russia+Australia+NZ+Canada+South Africa etc etc

    Not defending the Germans in a WWII sense, just saying...

    Wellington • Since Apr 2007 • 201 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    Germany vs England+USA+Russia+Australia+NZ+Canada+South Africa etc etc

    I actually like the chances of a selection of Italy, Spain, Germany and Japan against those particular nations (to which we must add the Netherlands and France). The Axis leads 7 world cups to 2 for starters.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7383 posts Report Reply

  • Tom Semmens,

    The Axis leads 7 world cups to 2 for starters.

    As the Daily Mail famously said prior to the 1966 final,

    “If, on the morrow, the Germans beat us at our national game, we'd do well to remember that, twice this century, we have beaten them at theirs.”

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1810 posts Report Reply

  • Tim Hannah,

    I think we must also add Brazil as one of the etc etc. 7-7, sorry.

    Wellington • Since Jan 2007 • 224 posts Report Reply

  • Kyle Matthews,

    I actually like the chances of a selection of Italy, Spain, Germany and Japan against those particular nations (to which we must add the Netherlands and France).

    It would be very complex.

    The French would start on the Allied side, get their butts kicked, and then start playing for the Axis side, but half their team would be sabotaguing the team by stealing their boots and blowing up the goalposts. The Russians wouldn't so much put a team on the field as about half a million people, though only every 5th would have shoes on their feet.

    And the British Royal family would be hypocritically supporting the Allied team, after all them were on about how great the Germans were a couple of years beforehand.

    Since Nov 2006 • 6201 posts Report Reply

  • Hadyn Green,

    I actually like the chances of a selection of Italy, Spain, Germany and Japan against those particular nations (to which we must add the Netherlands and France).

    While it would be an amazing game, I fear the outcome could cause another war.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 2081 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    Also I think just designing the uniforms would land us quite quickly in hot waters.

    I think we must also add Brazil as one of the etc etc. 7-7, sorry.

    I totally knew that Brazil was even involved in World War II. Really! Ahem.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7383 posts Report Reply

  • Jonty,

    Regardless of racial stereotypes I think soccer, apart from being a wonderful spectacle, is a great leveller -- I couldn't help a nice warm feeling when little Ghana put the mighty US out of contention. But some stereotypes persist ...
    A Greek and an Italian were sitting in a Starbuck's one day discussing who had the superior culture.
    Over triple lattes the Greek guy says, "Well, we have the Parthenon", arching his eyebrows.
    The Italian replies, "We have the Coliseum."
    The Greek retorts, "We Greeks gave birth to advanced mathematics."
    The Italian, nodding agreement, and says, "But we built the Roman Empire."
    And so on and so on until the Greek comes up with what he thinks will end the discussion.
    With a flourish of finality he says, "We invented sex!"
    The Italian replies, "That is true, but it was the Italians who introduced it to women."

    Katikati • Since Mar 2007 • 101 posts Report Reply

  • giovanni tiso,

    I couldn't help a nice warm feeling when little Ghana put the mighty US out of contention.

    As they did four years ago. I don't think the US went into that game as favourites at all.

    Wellington • Since Jun 2007 • 7383 posts Report Reply

  • JackElder,

    As an aside: if anyone's interested, I've found a supplier of vuvuzelas within NZ. I bought one yesterday: it's tremendous fun. I'm planning on bringing it to meetings this week.

    Wellington • Since Mar 2008 • 708 posts Report Reply

  • Jonty,

    <As an aside: if anyone's interested, I've found a supplier of vuvuzelas within NZ. I bought one yesterday: it's tremendous fun. I'm planning on bringing it to meetings this week.?

    I'm sure you'll get a few suggestions on what to do with it :--)

    Katikati • Since Mar 2007 • 101 posts Report Reply

  • simon g,

    No, football England aren't like the All Blacks every four years. It's a popular view in NZ, comforting but false.

    The All Blacks are usually ranked number 1 in the world, or close to it. They consistently prove their quality by beating everyone else in the (smaller) world of rugby, and then stuff up at the RWC.

    Football England are not, and haven't been for decades, number 1 in the world. They manage to lose to teams like Northern Ireland between World Cups. Every four years, they have a consistent pattern: they get knocked out by the first top quality team they face (Germany, Portugal, Brazil, and Argentina). Tabloid hype aside, hardly anybody who follows football was picking them to win this World Cup. Teams like Spain (European champions) are simply, incontrovertibly ... better at football.

    The All Blacks don't have that excuse.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 782 posts Report Reply

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