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Speaker: Party Central, structures and silos

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  • Sacha, in reply to DexterX,

    The time for such options has been and gone some years ago, which is why I didn't address it. Might have made sense in many ways.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16771 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel,

    Another dropped ball...

    McCully clammed up for a few days until he delivered his fait accompli. Hopefully people still pay attention to character in electing leaders.

    A reminder of McCully's ineffectuality on the world stage - hark back to this editorial from 2010 trumpeting his signing of the Wellington Declaration with Hillary Clinton - this was touted as:

    The clear intent is that the Wellington Declaration serves as a symbolic fullstop to the Anzus rift, something that can be pointed to as hard evidence that the relationship has moved on, and that even if differences remain they are scarcely worth mentioning.

    Looks like the "scarcely worth mentioning" part is McCully's legacy!

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 5061 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to DexterX,

    It was a possibility, although I'm not bitter on the idea of a huge work of public architecture that would have brought major business to the downtown area, to replace the container ships, stacks of containers, and mobile unloading cranes. It could have had an outer boardwalk built in, opening up that waterfront. Or a dozen other ideas could have happened. But the political will was just not there. Labour was dying, and everything they were doing was getting slammed hard all around. The timing was simply unfortunate, that in the partisan politics of the day, we missed a gigantic opportunity to actually improve Auckland. In the end, we did not build one single stadium to host a massive sporting event, the like of which I doubt I'll ever see in this country again. I felt it was a piss-poor showing of national spirit, but I'm glad at least that people are finally rallying to the event itself, now that it's been plonked in our lap. Probably it will have a net positive economic effect, but it will have no lasting legacy at all.

    ETA: OK, temper that to "no lasting legacy for sports". It seems like it has stimulated a lot of local developments at least, which is pretty cool.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 8592 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to BenWilson,

    replace the container ships, stacks of containers, and mobile unloading cranes

    Trouble was it would have been as well as those rather than instead of them. And being able to walk around the edge of something doesn't make up for not being able to see past it or use it without paying.

    Princes Wharf is a prime nearby example of that failed promise, with the legal kerfuffle over the private occupier trying to deny even a modicum of public access that had been a condition of development.

    So was being a cruise ship terminal, for that matter, but that industry has its hand out for further public subsidy of its shore facilities on either Queens Wharf or one of the adjacent ones if the public manages to assert itself.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16771 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz, in reply to BenWilson,

    You think it would really be a good idea to have spent another billion dollars of public cash? I guess the only benefit would be to have further stuffed things up for the Nats.

    (the other downside of a big stadium is the way it looks when Auckland are playing Taranaki to a crowd of 6,000 in the pissing rain).

    One day, there'll be enough money to put the wharves under a huge concrete roof after the fashion of U-boat pens. Or move the docks to the other side of Waiheke, linked by a big bridge.

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 4463 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Sacha,

    and being able to walk around the edge of something doesn't make up for not being able to see past it or use it without paying.

    Yes, views of existing lucky people were preserved. They're not free, but at least they're the status quo, so that's all good.

    Trouble was it would have been as well as those rather than instead of them.

    Perhaps. The plans never got to a second round of discussion in which a thousand tweaks could have been added. In my memory, the main blockers were people complaining about views, birds and heritage in one camp, and stingy people in the other, in an unholy alliance to cut off their own noses to spite their faces, and to embarrass and frustrate Labour. The sense of wood around the right wing blogosphere when the plans were ditched was palpable.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 8592 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to BenWilson,

    Views of anyone at ground level would have been permanently blocked. The port company was never going to let go of the container terminal. And there was no way major construction work to strengthen the finger wharves was possible before the tournament. But politics played a big part, for sure - with Mallard rather then McCully being govt's emissary to the provinces.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16771 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Rich of Observationz,

    You think it would really be a good idea to have spent another billion dollars of public cash?

    Yup. I really do.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 8592 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Sacha,

    Views of anyone at ground level would have been permanently blocked.

    Have you walked along that area admiring the view recently? I have. You can't see anything.

    ETA: Mind you, I will admit to being one of those nuts that does like the view of a port, or any other major industrial site. I find them fascinating to watch, far more so than open sea, or trees, or whatever, for which there are thousands of millions of locations around this planet.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 8592 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Rich of Observationz,

    Moving the whole commercial port to somewhere near Howick/Whitford with dedicated road and rail freight links to the main trunk was mooted at some stage.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16771 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to BenWilson,

    You can't see anything

    At least the prospect of redeveloping those finger wharfs including Queens remains open - and the light is not being blocked by a ten-storey hulk. As an example, did you see the inside-the-red-fence public boulevard proposal some months back?

    But hey, we're arguing over an imaginary stadium that will never be built. :)

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16771 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Rich of Observationz,

    One day, there'll be enough money to put the wharves under a huge concrete roof after the fashion of U-boat pens. Or move the docks to the other side of Waiheke, linked by a big bridge.

    Ho ho. Or they could put the port somewhere sensible, and actually make money doing it. The real estate value of that land is colossal, far too valuable to waste on what is essentially a big parking lot for containers.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 8592 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to BenWilson,

    Agreed

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16771 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Sacha,

    But hey, we're arguing over an imaginary stadium that will never be built. :)

    Yes, it's water under the pier now. And yes, other things could be done there, and hopefully one day will be. The iterative improvements to the waterfront generally should eventually make it imperative that it becomes commercial/retail, rather than heavy industrial.

    I didn't see the boulevard proposal. Any good?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 8592 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to BenWilson,

    the boulevard proposal

    It was by the developers of the adjoining Britomart precinct. Joel Cayford discusses briefly, with pictures.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16771 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson,

    Making Quay St pedestrian/public transport only makes a lot of sense. Trucks shouldn't be going through there, when the Grafton on-ramp was built to serve the port. I wonder how many truckies are going that way to avoid the weighbridge/logbook check at the bottom of Parnell Rise.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 8592 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz, in reply to BenWilson,

    I've never seen the point of that check. Surely any trucky that knew they were overweight or overhours would go the other way. Or do they get a docket or something to go there when they leave the port?

    Also, I've never understood why Symonds St didn't get weight and height limits after the the link road was built?

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 4463 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Rich of Observationz,

    I've never understood why Symonds St didn't get weight and height limits after the the link road was built

    Putting the wellbeing of truckies over tertiary students says a lot about the priorities of successive governments.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16771 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Rich of Observationz,

    Yup, it should actually be at the port itself. Then there would be no reason not to take the motorway, which is where all trucks should go.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 8592 posts Report Reply

  • DexterX,

    To everybody, every peoples everywhere,

    On behalf of most beloved First Citizen John key the first it is humble honour to extend to rate payer heart felt thanks and big grinning for footing the bill for all to much too many buses, trains and yellow vest people that no one is using and also much praise and thanks for all those peoples who stay home and all those people's who walking around every where - very happy left right, left right, centre left.

    Special thanks to Irish fans who party hard, everything drunk and they not falling off wharf into water.

    Every people everywhere very happy, beloved First Citizen John key the first is very great and most beloved.

    Much love and big ups, it is my honour to remain most loyal, humble, obedient servant of my master the most beloved First Citizen John key the first.

    Murray McCully - Special Envoy for Beloved First Citizen of the National New Zealand People’s Democratic Republic.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1199 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Bomber Bradbury discusses the issue with Scoop's Selwyn Manning (who really needs to speak up) and a surprisingly well-behaved Matthew Hooten - first half of clip.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16771 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Auckland Council releases its major Draft Auckland Plan for consultation. Five weeks to comment.

    The draft Auckland Plan is the strategy to make Auckland the world’s most liveable city by 2040. It will also plan for an additional 1 million people and the 400,000 dwellings we will need to accommodate them.

    ...

    Five transformational shifts stand out as being critically important to the city’s success:

    * dramatically accelerating the prospects of children and young people
    * committing to environmental action and green growth
    * outstanding public transport within one network
    * radically improving urban living and the built environment
    * substantially lifting living standards for all Aucklanders

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16771 posts Report Reply

  • Rich of Observationz, in reply to Sacha,

    I see the council talking about education and economic development - things they have very little control over.

    If they feel the frameworks should be changed so that these things are devolved they should say so = otherwise they're just producing a collection of platitudes.

    Back in Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 4463 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Rich of Observationz,

    The supercity changes included wider arranagements linking central government and local actions, notably a Social Policy Forum co-chaired by Paula Bennett.

    There has been close cooperation in areas like transport, and in economic development with agencies like MED as exemplified in the RWC effort.

    The government's Auckland Policy Office has been a focus point since 2005.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16771 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Sacha,

    Auckland Transport has offered numbers using public transport from the stadium after the opening night.

    People catching trains and special event buses away from All Blacks v Tonga was 24,500

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 16771 posts Report Reply

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