Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: About Arie

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  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to Ross Mason,

    I am a poster who said they should throw the book at looters when this story turned up.

    Oh, I'm still for throwing the book at looters -- "the book" being due process leading to a fair trial conducted under the rule of law. "The book" doesn't include a chapter on police officers, felons and concern-troll thugs keeping their fucking hands to themselves, because that shouldn't have to be said to anyone with any pretensions to civilization.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to kei rivers,

    We do have another long convoluted theory

    I've got a number of them -- and none come to a conclusion other than the Prime Minister giving Helen Clark a call and asking where she hid the taser she used on Mallard.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Scott A,

    I'm with Richard. And I'm not someone to leap to defence of our 'boys-own-in-blue' club, but I honestly do see this as just as likely being at the hands of 'concerned citizens' or other prisoners (though that wouldn't excuse the police leaving him in a cell to suffer).

    Well, the two of you you could conjure some hitherto-unreported "concerned citizens" to help the hypothesis along. And it could have been cellmates, although again you'd expect someone to say something. But I suspect the most likely explanation is the most straightforward one.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22756 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to richard,

    I must admit I am uncomfortable seeing people minimize theft from a damaged house, whether it is light fittings or anything else.

    I'm pretty sure I didn't minimise it. I may have ventured that it was a poor basis for keeping someone in prison indefinitely.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22756 posts Report Reply

  • Clint Fern,

    The picture of the beaten guy somehow reminds me of the two Brit pilots who were shown on Iraqi Tv before Gulf War I.

    I would call Judith Collins pondlife but I happen to think frogs a lot more attractive - christ even mossies are less repellent. Maybe having to deal with this up her own self (or whatever Bill English said) and mad Greg O'Connor were the main reasons that Simon Power resigned. Garrett advocated the same thing as Collins but he was always meant to be a fringe loony.

    Nelson • Since Jul 2010 • 64 posts Report Reply

  • Hilary Stace,

    Autism NZ Chief Exec put out a press release about it.

    Wgtn • Since Jun 2008 • 3203 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Parks, in reply to Russell Brown,

    I am a poster who said they should throw the book at looters when this story turned up. Hindsight is a powerful weapon. I wonder how many others thought the same thing as me. I suspect half the bloody country.

    Oh, look, me too. It has taken me a while to work this out.

    And me. Although all we knew was that there was looting. I didn't know (until reading this post) that one of the people concerned was autistic, or that he'd been assaulted, or that the theft was relatively minor. I don't think many people did, because they read headlines and maybe one or two paragraphs into a story. To be fair, the concern and the anger directed at the looters was based, for many, on feeling protective of the vulnerable. It's just that they didn't perceive that it may not only be the victims of the looting who were vulnerable.

    Wellington • Since May 2007 • 1164 posts Report Reply

  • Glenn Pearce,

    It's worth noting the family aren't making any noise about the injuries but are quite vocal about other aspects.

    They have also praised the herald reporter for getting *behind* the story of just another looter.

    Auckland • Since Feb 2007 • 501 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Parks, in reply to kei rivers,

    The idea that she is actually unable to understand why people would read it the way we have seems rather farfetched.

    Rather!

    I expect no better from Laws. But the comment from Collins... ffs..

    Wellington • Since May 2007 • 1164 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Parks, in reply to Russell Brown,

    But I suspect the most likely explanation is the most straightforward one.

    Maybe so, but in your blog you stated as fact that the police did it. I agree that with what we know it seems most likely, but don't see the benefit in jumping to conclusions at this point.

    Wellington • Since May 2007 • 1164 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Glenn Pearce,

    They have also praised the herald reporter for getting *behind* the story of just another looter.

    Yes, Jared Savage certainly deserves a great deal of credit for his story. But it might have been nice had the paper pursued the issue of Arie’s injuries.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22756 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic,

    This is nearly as bad as those who attributed Martin Bryant's trigger-happy spree to Aspergers, without evidence to back it up. In fact he had sub-par IQ.

    Minister Collins doesn't resemble Nurse Ratched - she IS Nurse Ratched.

    More worrying still is the fact that we weren't told the whole story in the first place. I've said it before, but all that's missing is a giant telescreen to beam the message through.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5420 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Kumara Republic,

    This is nearly as bad as those who attributed Martin Bryant’s trigger-happy spree to Aspergers, without evidence to back it up. In fact he had sub-par IQ.

    He had all kinds of problems.

    That story was all over the news when we got the Asperger diagnosis for Jimmy. Fortunately, we had home internet before most people and O.A.S.IS. existed.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22756 posts Report Reply

  • Alex Gilks, in reply to George Darroch,

    Those comments from the Collins were sickening. If we can't expect a cabinet minister to deal calmly with an obvious scapegoat/venting of anger story, then no wonder we see regular locals losing the plot.
    I'm very uncomfortable overall with the over-reporting of these pretty insignificant 'looting' stories, even on national radio. Of course some people will nick stuff. So what?

    Upper Vauxhall, Dunedin • Since Apr 2007 • 17 posts Report Reply

  • Rob Stowell,

    Sad sad story.
    Hard to be disappointed in Lhaws or Collins when one’s expectation is so, so low. But it’s sad for us as a nation that the minister of police sees herself as the leader of a lynch mob; and the powers-that-be in radio and print give Lhaws evermore scope to spread his twisted, petty, ignorant, self-righteous hatred.
    Publicity of this is good. How else do we hold them to account?

    Whakaraupo • Since Nov 2006 • 2091 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic, in reply to Rob Stowell,

    But it’s sad for us as a nation that the minister of police sees herself as the leader of a lynch mob; and the powers-that-be in radio and print give Lhaws evermore scope to spread his twisted, petty, ignorant, self-righteous hatred.

    Dragging the Red Squad out of retirement can't be far off.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5420 posts Report Reply

  • FletcherB, in reply to Alex Gilks,

    I’m very uncomfortable overall with the over-reporting of these pretty insignificant ‘looting’ stories, even on national radio. Of course some people will nick stuff. So what?

    The only stories on National Radio that I heard where the items being looted were mentioned (and thus, you could come to a conclusion on whether they were insignificant or not)... were for petrol-generators keeping cell towers and road-side exchanges going at a time when they had no power and their battery backup was dwindling.... in a city with thousands of people trying to contact one another to let them know they were OK, and a few calling for help from within crushed buildings...

    The lack of those generators would have caused a lot of emotional anguish for a large population of already distressed people, and at a stretch, maybe even have cost lives?

    Not what I'd call "insignificant" in the circumstances.

    West Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 887 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to Kumara Republic,

    Dragging the Red Squad out of retirement can’t be far off

    There was an item on the news tonight (One I think, but I can't see it) about the Armed Offenders Squad patrolling in Christchurch 24/7 - tooled up - because they "want to do their bit", and the video had a cop in his AOS uniform, gun on hip. Unfuckingbelievable.

    The AOS is only supposed to be deployed in response to an incident involving armed offenders, hence the name (that note for Judith Collins, in case she hadn't worked it out). They're not supposed to do ordinary patrolling, armed with glocks and sheilds and who knows what else is in the back of the wagon.

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2930 posts Report Reply

  • samuel walker, in reply to Russell Brown,

    Oh, look, me too. It has taken me a while to work this out.

    which is a small but important part of what makes Russell Brown always worth listening to. And is one of the indicators that Mr Laws is sadly lacking.

    I am very possibly wrong, but I think the police should be questioned about this fairly, lets not just turn the angry mob 180 degrees. There is enough possibility in that city of injury without angry residents and fellow 'looters' let alone the police.

    Since Nov 2006 • 203 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic,

    And I'm sure the NBR's David Cohen will have something to say about this, given his son is autistic.

    Regarding my last comment on Minister Collins, I'd go one up and say that we don't have a Police Minister, only a Minister of Love.

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5420 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia,

    <i>I’m very uncomfortable overall with the over-reporting of these pretty insignificant ‘looting’ stories</i>

    I'm getting really fucking sick of hearing this. Here's the deal: Next time you want to say someone having their house looted is "insignficant" or "trivial" please post your home address and leave your keys and alarm codes in the letter box.

    At PAS we're capable of holding more than one idea in mind at the same time. So try this out.

    1) Anyone accused of a crime (however heinous) does not "deserve" to be raped, beaten or otherwise abused by anyone.

    2) People who put giving a shit about their neighbours and community above securing their own homes do not deserve to have a further violation dismissed as "insignificant" "bullshit".

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • Idiot Savant, in reply to Raymond A Francis,

    I rather hope someone does some decent , dear I say it, detective work and finds out just how this boy got beaten

    Ditto. Police beatings are not meant to happen in this country. Nor are beatings in prison. Someone needs to look into this.

    FWIW, our National Preventative Mechanism under the Convention Against Torture is the Ombudsmen's office. Might be worth letting them know about your concerns.

    Palmerston North • Since Nov 2006 • 1711 posts Report Reply

  • Idiot Savant,

    Do you have any evidence it was the police who beat this young man, Russell?

    No. I'm simply at a loss for any other explanation.

    More importantly, the police arrested him and he was in their custody. They have a duty of care, and the onus is on them to prove that they discharged it properly.

    Palmerston North • Since Nov 2006 • 1711 posts Report Reply

  • Caleb D'Anvers,

    I must admit I am uncomfortable seeing people minimize theft from a damaged house, whether it is light fittings or anything else.

    Really? What I'm uncomfortable with the the implicit return to Victorian "values" that this whole episode suggests. The deliberate choice to take a strict interpretation of property laws as a means of social control, in other words. It's not really that different from the use of transportation as a punishment for petty theft in the nineteenth century.

    If you take a close look at what "Lee" and Laws are calling for, it's not just "throwing the book" at looters; it's permanent institutionalization for the likes of Arie. A return to the concept of the asylum/workhouse. That's where the paedophile analogy comes from. And it's explicitly what "Lee" is calling for here:

    because of his disability, he should not be put in a mainstream prison for sure. What should be done with him is definitely keep him in custody. Do not let the guy out.

    In the context of the theft of a light fitting from a demolition site, this makes no sense at all. But if we're talking about the return of a system of permanent sequestering and institutionalization of the "different," then it makes all the sense in the world, unfortunately. There's an absolute craving out there in social-conservative circles (not just in NZ, but here in the UK, too) for the moral certainties of the Victorian age, and this is what Laws and co. are gesturing at.

    London SE16 • Since Mar 2008 • 482 posts Report Reply

  • Kumara Republic,

    And what became of the Mason Report? Was it ever put in practice?

    The southernmost capital … • Since Nov 2006 • 5420 posts Report Reply

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