Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Art with a job to do

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  • George Darroch, in reply to Sofie Bribiesca,

    So, a corporate logo it is then?

    I also compared it to clothing. The flag is not clothing, unless you're Australian.

    It is a flag. An item with symbolic meaning that is used for a range of practical purposes and which is necessary for any nation-state in the modern world.

    WLG • Since Nov 2006 • 2264 posts Report Reply

  • George Darroch, in reply to Matthew Hooton,

    Just by the way, New Zealand has grassy-green or snowy-white mountains. Australia has red peaks. Red peak has no meaning for New Zealand.

    Actually, the soil of many of our most iconic maunga is brown or red (particularly in our volcanic regions). They are capped with white, in the form of snow or cloud.

    But if you weren't an inner-city latte-sipper, you'd know this.

    WLG • Since Nov 2006 • 2264 posts Report Reply

  • linger,

    Matthew clearly doesn't pop in here often enough to realise that "many of us here" don't actually support Red Peak either -- except as a protest against the infernal nonsense of the process and of the officially sanctioned proposals.

    Tokyo • Since Apr 2007 • 1886 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Hooton, in reply to George Darroch,

    f you weren’t an inner-city latte-sipper,

    Excuse me. I do not have milk with my coffee. That is unforgivably vulgar.

    Auckland • Since Aug 2007 • 194 posts Report Reply

  • Ironheart,

    New Zealand • Since Mar 2014 • 3 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes, in reply to Matthew Hooton,

    1.2 million voters cannot be completely wrong.

    Of course they can, after all, do we not have John Key as our prime minister?

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to George Darroch,

    the pirates of pennants...

    on the Auckland Harbour Bridge alongside the current ensign.
    Or furled above Mt Victoria

    I have seen several 'displays' of the 5 alternative flags around Chchch - but none of them also included the existing flag by way of a 'control' contrast
    - I am assuming / hoping those displays will now be replaced with the two 'finalists' for the final 'flag poll' in March...
    Perhaps swimming costume and evening wear version categories could be introduced to spice things up in the final days...

    Other exposure ploys might involve two helicopters dragging large versions across the skies of each major city ( Zardoz-like) and subliminal blipverts on the telly, airships with football field-sized video screens would be too much to hope for...
    ;- )

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7881 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes, in reply to Matthew Hooton,

    If you weren’t an inner-city latte-sipper,

    Ok then, Steinlager swilling redneck?.
    ;-)

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to George Darroch,

    I also compared it to clothing. The flag is not clothing, unless you’re Australian

    Or Sean Plunket.

    here and there. • Since Nov 2007 • 6796 posts Report Reply

  • George Darroch, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    subliminal blipverts on the telly...

    Shhhh, that's already happening.

    WLG • Since Nov 2006 • 2264 posts Report Reply

  • George Darroch, in reply to Sofie Bribiesca,

    Or Sean Plunket.

    Touche.

    WLG • Since Nov 2006 • 2264 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes, in reply to Sofie Bribiesca,

    Attachment

    I also compared it to clothing. The flag is not clothing, unless you’re Australian

    Or Sean Plunket.

    Or Uncle Sam...

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to linger,

    a flag for a brave neo world...

    Matariki/Crux pattern

    Nice.
    though I think the 'Matarikix' needs a Red Pill as well as cyan and yellow...
    (and that bottom blue strip is buzzing my BNZ logo receptors.)

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7881 posts Report Reply

  • Alec Morgan, in reply to Matthew Hooton,

    a 21st century review of national identity involving republicanism and our post colonial progress; with proper design standards applied, might have been a healthy exercise for the nation–but really the flag should be at half mast over this cynical rebranding exercise timed to bookend the “rubber wool cub”

    Tokerau Beach • Since Nov 2006 • 121 posts Report Reply

  • Sam F, in reply to Matthew Hooton,

    New Zealand has grassy-green or snowy-white mountains. Australia has red peaks. Red peak has no meaning for New Zealand.

    You’ll never look up in this country and see a red Southern Cross in a blue sky either. And I would say a white mountain with a red core is actually highly meaningful for New Zealand, if you’re going to go the route of judging flags as if they were geography lessons.

    Given the energy that went into promoting fern based options like the Lockdoow flags, and that they just look that much more like our current flag than Red Peak does, I’m not surprised they did so well. Red Peak couldn’t really compete with the recognition factor of the Blue Ensign and Silver Fern combined. I don’t think 1.2 million voters were entirely wrong – their choice – but I do suspect that number includes quite a few people who voted for the flag/s most similar to our current ensign and who will probably vote for retention of the current flag in March. It’ll be interesting to see how it goes.

    The Point Chevalier & Aro Valley comment is a cheap shot and beneath you. 150,000 votes is a fair number of New Zealanders, especially for a design that was basically completely unknown until after the shortlist was announced. They chose an interesting design in opposition to the Lockwood options, possibly not in any expectation that it would ever win. Can I suggest you stop projecting your contempt for these particular New Zealanders onto other people?

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1609 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes,

    What does Winston think?

    End embarrassing flag change farce

    Saturday, 12 December 2015, 7:09 pm
    Press Release: New Zealand First Party
    END EMBARRASSING FLAG CHANGE FARCE

    Rt Hon Winston Peters
    New Zealand First Leaders
    Member of Parliament for Northland

    12 December 2015

    With 1,791,706 voters ignoring or lodging an informal vote in the first flag referendum, New Zealand First is calling on the government to end the flag farce.

    “A clear majority of New Zealanders, some 62%, have sent the clearest possible message to Prime Minister John Key on his $26.4 million vanity project,” says the New Zealand First Leader and Member of Parliament for Northland Rt Hon Winston Peters.

    “The referendum proved there’s no mood for engagement in this costly circus nor for changing the flag.

    “Some 1.64 million voters abstained on a constitutional referendum while the informal vote was third. This provides empirical evidence that most New Zealanders want the whole thing scrapped.

    “The number of informal votes, at 148,022, is unprecedented in our democracy given there were only about 38,000 cast in the 2014 General Election.

    “There are still many supporting the claim that we must have a silver fern, yet none of these white symbols on the flag choices represents anything like our special fern – in simple English, it’s silver underside is its uniqueness hence the name.”

    ENDS

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • George Darroch, in reply to Steve Barnes,

    What does Winston think?

    You're missing a comma.

    WLG • Since Nov 2006 • 2264 posts Report Reply

  • Ian Dalziel, in reply to Sofie Bribiesca,

    Dalziel and the fern analogy

    ...look out for our new album...
    Logging in the Metaphorest
    The difficult second album, especially after the well received yet raw earthiness of the Bracken Brew debut.
    A pteridologist's wet dream!

    in fact a moist reverie just brushed my brow
    What if... as ferns are good at fixing atmospheric nitrogen and processing it, the solution to dairy-caused pollution might be to have orchards of silver ferns / ponga with repurposed irrigators spraying aerosolised urine and nitrogen in solution over them to catalyse the process.

    NB: this has been sprinkled with $10 words which may not mean what I think they mean - but hey, it's just a passing fancy....
    :- )

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 7881 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to Alec Morgan,

    the flag fiasco seems a text book example of attempted manufactured consent

    This.

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2929 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes, in reply to George Darroch,

    What does Winston think?

    You’re missing a comma.

    What? does Winston think?
    I think perhaps a question mark?
    But the answer is a resounding yes.
    ;-)

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to llew40,

    Given a choice between conspiracy or cock-up, I always think the more likely is the omnishambles (as George so adroitly put it)

    Nothing wrong with seeing it as a cocked-up conspiracy. Alex did say " attempted manufactured consent".

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2929 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Matthew Hooton,

    your country and your fellow citizens. Many of you seem to hold them in contempt.

    nah, you're thinking of Bradbury and co

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19667 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to George Darroch,

    No more than Qantas would stop being an airline if it flew aircraft with white tails. It would find its job considerably harder though.

    Really? You'll find, if you look, that plenty of flights booked through Qantas are actually on Air New Zealand planes (as one example).

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2929 posts Report Reply

  • Steve Barnes, in reply to Ian Dalziel,

    $10 words

    Indubitably my good fellow, as cromulent in their efficacy as symbolically staved tea towels .

    Peria • Since Dec 2006 • 5521 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to George Darroch,

    You'll probably repeat it confidently on National Radio though, at which point it becomes truth.

    Which is really the whole point about "manufacturing consent". Read your Chomsky, man! ;-)

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2929 posts Report Reply

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