Hard News: Bean-Counting the Beat
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of you being a dick. Honestly
nice to know we share mutual feelings russell, I like your internet news stuff though, if that counts for anything?
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Phase 4 for a start.
phase for is the $50000 for an album thing?
that would be in direct contradiction to the whole broadcasting aspect for a start (smyth goes on about how he's in the broadcasting buiness), cos albums don't get played, singles do,
and one would think you should sort the first objective of your corporation (getting more nz on air) before you moved onto anything else.I agree its good to see more albums made, no problem with that, but its more about what the point of the original scheme was rather than empire building for mr smyth.
I'd be interested in how well the self funding thing went.
recipients are supposed to pay back the funding once they reach a certain point in their profits and sales. not a bad idea I guess. does it work? does anyone actually hit break even on albums or is it all like the NZ Idol fiasco where the books are done to conveniently avoid that point of handing anything back.any radio play battles you know of where they went hard and got results?
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, cos albums don't get played, singles do,
Singles generally come from albums, surely?
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not a bad idea I guess. does it work? does anyone actually hit break even on albums
No, you pay back a dollar an album from record one, on NZ sales.
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Honestly
I'm not trying to make friends with you Russell, and especially not Brendan. I'm trying to challenge what you say and what he's done.
I'm pissed off with brendan and the way he's run NZ on Air, which is a common feeling amongst musicians, hardly revolutionary, and believe me I held back. lets just say I'm not a fan. you want me to lie about that? Should I not raise these issues in public cos he's someone you personally like?as far as you're concerned you make some really bad calls, especially in the field of music. What's the point of a public forum if you're merely looking for reinforcement of your own view.
I like to be challenged, I was sincere re Kyle, it helped me think through my own thoughts on issues, even if I didn't agree with his stand point.
I had a look at some of kyles comments in other forums. he's competing for second place for mr grumpy, and good for him, otherwise it would be a meeting of the middle aged middle class all agreeing with themselves.
While working as an AV tech I had to show movies in Uni lectures, one of the slackest jobs I've ever had.
One of the movies I remember well though. it was to do with the Jewish community and one thing stuck in my mind.
they were talking about the jewish tradition of debate, and how the point wasn't to win but to bash out an idea.
if one party got stuck in their argument the other party would step in and say well perhaps you might say this, and then the debate would continue. -
Singles generally come from albums, surely?
come on simon, you're not getting that one through.
especially in the digital downloads age where apparently people are rebelling against "having to buy an album of crap for the one song they like"I personally like full albums, but they don't play them on radio
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No, you pay back a dollar an album from record one, on NZ sales.
that's a pretty sweet deal.
so its 50000 copies to repay completely the funding.
not many local albums hit that though do they? -
come on simon, you're not getting that one through.
especially in the digital downloads age where apparently people are rebelling against "having to buy an album of crap for the one song they like"Yes but the scheme,which pre-dates the digital era, was dependent on the act having three songs that had enough airplay to get three NZoA airplay awards. Thus proving their airplay potential. And many acts then provided an album that had more songs with radio play (not just commercial airplay, but b-net etc) potential. It was a worthy scheme as envisaged by Brendan and intended to create a catalogue of material that radio should be able to play, and give the act something to build on.
Sadly commercial radio ignores most of it.
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that's a pretty sweet deal.
so its 50000 copies to repay completely the funding.
not many local albums hit that though do they?A surprising number used to, but no longer.
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It was a worthy scheme as envisaged by Brendan and intended to create a catalogue of material that radio should be able to play, and give the act something to build on.
yes it is a good concept, and one that should have been taken up by another dept. definitely not NZ on Airs job.
Albums are a record labels commercial device to make a project profitable. you can sell an album for more money for the same manufacturing cost etc, not every song has to be a winner on them, etc.That's got nothing to do with broadcasting potential. it has a lot to do with growing an industry though, building up bigger catalogue of kiwi musical achievements. Surely that would have been another project to tackle after they got radio into a position to play it.
Radio pretty much never played anything that wasn't given to them as a single though. they don't go trawling through albums looking for missed gems to turn into hits.
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I'm not trying to make friends with you Russell, and especially not Brendan. I'm trying to challenge what you say and what he's done.
Rob, these threads all seem to go the same way. You don't really pay attention to what anyone else says, you bait people with lame-arsed taunts like "ok, noted, kyle can't handle lateral thinking" and you generally don't show a lot of respect or maturity. You've been insulting towards me on various occasions, which I just put up with, but please don't do it to other people here. It starts to look like trolling.
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eh? Stay on topic.
During Family Bingo Night at Club Med recently we would invariably get some teen scalliwag (sans parents) yelling out 'Bingo!' and pretending they'd won and slowing down the whole game. Unfortunately for them the staff had a counter measure. Anyone calling 'Bingo!' maliciously was met with a chorus of "In the pool! In the pool!" and they were thrown in (fully clothed). Not quite the offline equivalent of 'Theatre' but ...
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You've been insulting towards me on various occasions,
Ive been critical of you on various occasions.
The point of my comments was to criticise you.
you've done the same on many an occasion and I show you the same degree of respect you show me. As I said I'm not a fan of your music critique work. I am against you being involved in issues of music funding or guiding policy on music because I don't think you have a solid grasp on it. you obviously think I'm blowing smoke too, and imply it, but I'm not getting upset about it. I'm confident in my level of experience which you seem to question although I think you know very little about me, and I accept that you have different views to me, and I'll shrug your comments off accordingly.lame-arsed taunts like "ok, noted, kyle can't handle lateral thinking"
it hard to know what to make of his response to my example. he really didn't seem to get it and thought I was attacking him for some view he held on disaster relief.
I wasn't there to pick fights with kyle (just smyth and occasionally you if you do the talking down voice of authority thing) and attempted to understand his view point and express mine. I put a genuine question to him. -
...at what point does the NZoA say,"OK We fucked up, this isn't working, the landscapes changed, we need fresh ideas and fresh people from the top down"
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dubmugga
you're chch, no wonder you're angry :)
I'd love to see the stats on distribution of grants regionally.
including how many applications were received from different areas and how many grants given to those areas. -
Ive been critical of you on various occasions.
You've been directly insulting on various occasions. I don't think you know you're doing it, but please try and bear in mind that it's my house. Most of all, try not to imply I'm lying. That does tick me off a bit.
The point of my comments was to criticise you.
you've done the same on many an occasion and I show you the same degree of respect you show me. As I said I'm not a fan of your music critique work. I am against you being involved in issues of music funding or guiding policy on music because I don't think you have a solid grasp on it.Whatever ...
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dubmugga
you're chch, no wonder you're angry :)
I'd love to see the stats on distribution of grants regionally.
including how many applications were received from different areas and how many grants given to those areas.Not so much angry as frustrated. And yeah thats why i suggested regional funding though a liaison person who knows the local scene is the one and get rid of the "send your cd to welli" thing. Lets personalise this shit. Sort of like an 'idol' audition with feedback as to why your tune/band didnt get funded instead of checking the NZoA site to see you didnt make the cut with no reason as to why.
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I don't think you know you're doing it, but please try and bear in mind that it's my house. Most of all, try not to imply I'm lying. That does tick me off a bit.
noted on the imply lie thing. For the record I don't think you would knowingly lie, you're a pretty earnest guy. you certainly can be evasive if its something you don't want to say.
if you don't think I know I'm doing it then you could try politely point it out instead of a put down. it might work. Although I know this is the internet and that stuff is fair game I don't respond well to off handed comments just like you don't.
Whatever ...
yeah, whatever.....
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And yeah thats why i suggested regional funding though a liaison person who knows the local scene
I like your idea of local knowledge person,
I'm not so much for regional funding as for making sure your location doesn't handicap you for funding, because there is a lack of regional awareness.That's why I'd like to see if there's any correlation between number of grants from a region and grants received.
In the south there seems to be a lot more dissatisfaction with funding decisions and a push for people to move to ak or wellington to participate in the system. A funding body shouldn't encourage urban drift.
Its not that each city should get equal amounts of funding but that no city should be disadvantaged because of its locale.
The idol audition thing, well you'd have to have qualified staff for that and that's definitely something worth pushing for but I'm not holding my breath, I'd just like to see them acknowledge their brief properly for starters and watch the trickle down effect of that. free up all that cash going to brooke and co, "target that which would not otherwise be funded", focus on identity and culture, and put the effort into getting some real change on commercial radio, however that might be achievable. -
I'm not so much for regional funding
Should we just assume people in different places like the same music then ? Compare sth aux tastes to chch to welli central ? Theres a big difference eh. Even in hiphop theres regional differences in musical output.
The idol audition thing, well you'd have to have qualified staff for that and that's definitely something worth pushing for
qualified like how ?
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but please try and bear in mind that it's my house.
that's an interesting concept.
I don't know that I agree with you entirely on that.
My understanding is public address is an open discussion forum, and this is your blog in that forum. It depends on if you see your blog on public address as a route to frank and honest feed back to your other activities such as your media show or listener column or if you see it more as a fan site for you, like a band website etc.Public Address seems somewhat of a media experiment.
Can you have open and frank interaction with the public in an open forum?. people might say things you don't like.
What do you do about it when they do?you could disable their account but then the experiment has failed cos you're silencing that which you don't want to hear, not really in the spirit of the internet and open access.
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Should we just assume people in different places like the same music then ? Compare sth aux tastes to chch to welli central ? Theres a big difference eh. Even in hiphop theres regional differences in musical output.
True but you don't want to be giving funding to an act just because the come from a certain city. local knowledge would address that though. you only see the current staff when they're here for a wine and cheese evening or to rant their sound bites at some pre arranged function.
qualified like how ?
like NOT a self appointed style maker.
People with local knowledge, music involvement and background, and cover a variety of genres. But that's not going to be relevant until they address the Commercial radio format fetish they're presently stuck in
As far as I can tell the current team at NZ on Air have minimal background and contact with the wider music community. They're hardly diverse and as said before you never see them round. None of em turn up at the kings arms/SFBH/Dux/Refuel etc every weekend to check out the local movements. how could they possibly make decisions that reflect what's going on in the music culture scene. -
True but you don't want to be giving funding to an act just because the come from a certain city
Goes without saying they'd have to have a good tune or 2 as well. Regional funding would also foster healthy competition between centres which can only be a good thing. It'd help grow the local scene immensely if we knew there was a dedicated person batting on our regions behalf and the money was going back into our local economy.
I still don't understand the narow commercial radio fetish. Why does funding all have to revolve around radio ? Album funding, video funding, touring funding... dont these people envision a time coming real soon when radio wont even be the main form of listening in cars or home ?
I'd rather see more diverse genred NZ music vids than hear more fake pop tunes on the radio. If artists still want to have radio as a focus then fine, but for those that don't, there needs to be an easy access to public money to support stuff that doesnt fit the mainstream taste as deciced by tastemakers of dubious distinction.
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Why does funding all have to revolve around radio ?
it presently revolves around 'commercial' radio. An important distinction.
The guidelines as I read them do not support this, that's brendans personal interpretation.
There is regional funding in the guise of creative communities but their funding is in the range of $1000. They're pretty open to different genres, no radio focus etc.
That doesn't correct the misdirection of NZ on Air though. I find it offensive that it continues to operate contrary to its guidelines, as I would find it ffensive if any other aid organisation used funds for anything other than what they were intended.
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just for the record simon, no disrespect to you ever, just in case you're the sensitive type who reads these things into internet discussion, and I'm sure you're not.
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