Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Before Lust

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  • Emma Hart, in reply to BenWilson,

    I think we're not afraid of nudity so much as embarrassed about not having perfect bodies. People who are super buff have no shame, so far as I can see. You wouldn't bother with all the trouble of buffing to then not let everyone see.

    Nah, I completely disagree. I mean, obviously, completely based on casual observation, but I've noticed no correlation between the women who hide under towels or change in toilets vs women who just wander about naked when getting changed, and socially-promoted body shape. Body confidence seems more related to other kinds of confidence. Maybe for women who spend a lot of time and effort trying to be thin, and hairless, and perky, that very striving means their bodies can never be good enough.

    We can't even let our kids run around naked any more, between being terrified of the sun and terrified of paedophiles. It's very hard to have a healthy relationship with nudity when you're told you can't take photos of your kids in their togs at the swimming sports.

    When I see billboards thrusting oversized vaginas at bored passers-by

    You will never see a vagina in advertising. We've only just got to the point where it's all right to say vagina - in an ad for a "feminine hygiene product", that only airs after the watershed. If we were all "sex is so boring and dull we're all so over-exposed", it should be no more controversial to say 'vagina' than to say 'leg'.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 4651 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Emma Hart,

    but I've noticed no correlation

    I guess figures are the only way to be sure of a correlation on something like this. I do see one, but of course it's nowhere near 100%. Mostly the perception comes from people who have changed their behavior as their shape has changed.

    Body confidence seems more related to other kinds of confidence.

    I guess so, but a feedback loop is highly credible - other kinds of confidence might well be eroded by a loss of body confidence too.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10657 posts Report Reply

  • Heather Gaye, in reply to BenWilson,

    Body confidence seems more related to other kinds of confidence.

    I guess so, but a feedback loop is highly credible - other kinds of confidence might well be eroded by a loss of body confidence too.

    I wonder if there's perhaps a difference in attitudes between the two sexes?

    In my girls-only fighting gym, body confidence has pretty much zero correlation to buffness, and a heavy correlation to the length of time one has been actively participating. We're encouraged to wear sports bras and short shorts in the ring for purely practical reasons, and a lot of our newer members are aggressively against the idea. Eventually they'll be convinced, and most women just kind of get over it. Even the women that worry about their weight a lot are pretty comfortable with stripping down.

    I think there are a couple of elements at play in this particular case: there's a massive confidence boost associated with the sport, which seems to make women less self-conscious; in particular, when your whole body is this awesome weapon, it's really easy to forget your embarrassment of it. It's also a sport in which heavyweights have a significant advantage - for someone unhappy with their weight it won't entirely eliminate her concerns, but there's suddenly a significant part of her week that people are telling her how great it is that she's the weight she is. And, when you wear what amounts to half-sized granny undies in front of a bunch of people a fair bit of the time, doing something that you really enjoy, it just becomes normal.

    Upshot, I've learned that self-consciousness doesn't have much to do with your appearance. It seems to me like the people (at least those that don't actively pursue the perfect body as a life goal or for their career) have been trained/conditioned to be super-aware of their body as a flawed, flatulent and unpretty thing, and if they already have issues with confidence or esteem, that attitude can be even more ingrained. The women in the gym seem to be able to switch off that critical self-scrutiny, at least for 3 3-minute rounds.

    Morningside • Since Nov 2006 • 533 posts Report Reply

  • BenWilson, in reply to Heather Gaye,

    Hard to be sure if self-selection isn't at work with that, though. Anyone who had a real problem with the clothes might be put off the sport from the start, before they even walked in the door.

    But I agree, self-confidence can definitely be lifted by that kind of training, with the right crowd, and it can flow on to greater general self-confidence. Actually, most kinds of training raise confidence, to a point.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 10657 posts Report Reply

  • Lilith __, in reply to Heather Gaye,

    in particular, when your whole body is this awesome weapon, it’s really easy to forget your embarrassment of it.

    The concept that bodies can be for doing stuff and not just for being looked at? Awesome.

    Dunedin • Since Jul 2010 • 3895 posts Report Reply

  • Geoff Lealand,

    If you get the chance, catch the recent Michelle William's film Take This Waltz for the shower scene featuring female bodies of all kinds of shape. So rare in movies.

    Screen & Media Studies, U… • Since Oct 2007 • 2562 posts Report Reply

  • Craig Ranapia, in reply to Emma Hart,

    If we were all “sex is so boring and dull we’re all so over-exposed”, it should be no more controversial to say ‘vagina’ than to say ‘leg’.

    And anyone who agrees with Larkin that sexual intercourse began "between the end of the Chatterley Ban / and the Beatles' first LP" needs to get out the house more. :) Our generation didn't invent sex (and the quite contrary treatment of it in culture high and low), and never has.

    North Shore, Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 12370 posts Report Reply

  • DexterX, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    Our generation

    The ageing hipsters; demographically that’s a fair few cohorts past the point of no return.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1224 posts Report Reply

  • Tony Siu,

    Oooh, why am I not in the country for this?

    Auckland • Since Mar 2008 • 82 posts Report Reply

  • WH, in reply to Emma Hart,

    You will never see a vagina in advertising. We’ve only just got to the point where it’s all right to say vagina – in an ad for a “feminine hygiene product”, that only airs after the watershed. If we were all “sex is so boring and dull we’re all so over-exposed”, it should be no more controversial to say ‘vagina’ than to say ‘leg’.

    I think those are different parts of a larger topic. I’m sympathetic to your point about feminine hygiene products, even it was more Hell Pizza than attempt to promote mature discussion. It’s true that you don’t see a lot of hootenanny in advertising, but its generally pretty strongly implied. It’s one thing to push back Victorian attitudes, another to boost the sales of your toothpaste by hinting at access to a stranger’s gear. A quick google search suggests that it annoys quite a few of us.

    A critique of sexual imagery in the media doesn’t really rely on the inappropriateness of sexuality per se, its more that that sexuality has been co-opted to serve someone else’s goals, that something worthwhile has become banal because it was mixed with something completely tedious.

    In the same way that Hanover co-opted trust and community by getting Richard Long to do its voice-overs, some people just want to influence your behaviour without any real regard for how that might ultimately make you feel.

    Since Nov 2006 • 797 posts Report Reply

  • Matthew Littlewood, in reply to Geoff Lealand,

    If you get the chance, catch the recent Michelle William’s film Take This Waltz for the shower scene featuring female bodies of all kinds of shape. So rare in movies.

    Yes, I wonder whether the fact the film was directed by a young woman ( the excellent Sarah Polley) had something to do with that. I found the film's relaxed and frank attitude to female nudity quite refreshing, actually- particularly in the sense that most of it was shown in "domestic" and decidedly non-sexual settings. I guess it heightens the fact that most of the sexual tension in the film is implied, rather than acted upon (until near the end of the film, where it does, briefly, get sexually explicit). The film relies a lot on the power of suggestion, and for once, it implies that nudity in and of itself isn't always suggestive. I mean, in other American films, it would be a really big deal that the lead actress appears "full frontal" in more than one scene. In this one, the inference is yes, people are sometimes naked around the house.

    But I won't lie- Michelle Williams looks amazing naked (and fully clothed- I like her array of pretty dresses).

    Today, Tomorrow, Timaru • Since Jan 2007 • 449 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown,

    Yay. Ema Lyon and Wendy Lee's new d.vice advice book has just arrived. It's really good !

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22850 posts Report Reply

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