Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: Christchurch: Is "quite good" good enough?

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  • Richard Derham, in reply to Barnaby Bennett,

    The absence of any announcement on the town hall is characteristic of this. It doesn’t appear in the plan, and rumour suggests that a decision has been made for it to be demolished, yet it makes only some vague comment about it, with no information about land quality, cost, or decision making criteria.

    I haven't heard anything mentioned about the town hall for a long time but I did notice in the video at 00:45 that it had disappeared.

    Christchurch • Since Nov 2006 • 7 posts Report Reply

  • Ed Muzik,

    I'd be happy to see the golf course go as part of a deal for the Oval. But they aren't proposing that. I love cricket, it is a great space to watch it. I don't have problems with cricket so much, but the blurb Canterbury Cricket sent out said that it wouldn't be closed off from the public very often - and then went on to list how great it would be as a space for ticketed concerts and events. Canterbury vs Wellington is all well and good, but A Day on The Green featuring Brooke Fraser and Skrillex is a different story.

    Christchurch • Since Dec 2006 • 28 posts Report Reply

  • Tom Semmens,

    And you seem to believe people made submissions they didn’t really mean.

    No, I am saying that delivering the desires they expressed might require a bit more brain power than a simple literal translation.

    Sevilla, Espana • Since Nov 2006 • 2213 posts Report Reply

  • Lilith __, in reply to Sacha,

    not enough people here to make fixed lines pay

    yet

    To re-iterate Emma's point from earlier, rail would make sense if it went to the satellite suburbs/townships like Rangiora and Rolleston. But as cities go, Chch is relatively compact. As Hebe says, $750M would buy you a lot of buses and bikes.

    Dunedin • Since Jul 2010 • 3887 posts Report Reply

  • Hebe, in reply to Sacha,

    True. What does it take: a million people? Spread from Rakaia to Amberley; they won't all be going to a CBD for decades, if ever. Would have to be a spider's web design: concentric circles with radiating connections.

    Christchurch • Since May 2011 • 2896 posts Report Reply

  • Hebe, in reply to merc,

    John says his Govt. (sic) will pay for public amenities. John just hasn’t said what they are yet.

    You mean like toilets? Goody. Not sure whether the CERA laws give the govt the power to make the council sell assets ; and what happens if the "suggestions" are ignored.

    Christchurch • Since May 2011 • 2896 posts Report Reply

  • Lilith __, in reply to Tom Semmens,

    And you seem to believe people made submissions they didn’t really mean.

    No, I am saying that delivering the desires they expressed might require a bit more brain power than a simple literal translation.

    “Translation”? I can’t understand this is in any other way than you think Chch people are lying about what we want. Or are too stupid to know.

    Of course not every suggestion will turn out to be feasible. But you don’t seem to think the public submissions are worth anything. What other public discussion did you have in mind?

    Dunedin • Since Jul 2010 • 3887 posts Report Reply

  • Hebe, in reply to Richard Derham,

    I haven’t heard anything mentioned about the town hall for a long time but I did notice in the video at 00:45 that it had disappeared

    I noticed, and I am not making s judgment of any kind, that Ngai Tahu's cultural centre appears to sit on the Crowne Plaza /Town Hall site.

    Christchurch • Since May 2011 • 2896 posts Report Reply

  • merc, in reply to Hebe,

    You mean like toilets? Goody. Not sure whether the CERA laws give the govt the power to make the council sell assets ; and what happens if the "suggestions" are ignored.

    They ain't sayin" ;-)
    The whole issue revolves around who is prepared to pay for what. There will never be notified clarity round this, as there can then be no informed debate as to what is and what is not required.
    When you have nothing to evaluate against, everything is a wish list. And they know it, this was by the way, how the west was won.

    Since Dec 2006 • 2471 posts Report Reply

  • Hebe, in reply to Tom Semmens,

    No, I am saying that delivering the desires they expressed might require a bit more brain power than a simple literal translation.

    Bureaucrats are needed to translate the desires of the little people? WTF.

    Christchurch • Since May 2011 • 2896 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Hebe,

    they won't all be going to a CBD

    Won't need to. Like Auckland's network redesign driven by improved rail spines, the key is using buses to feed frequently into rail hubs and as you say, in circle routes between them. Smaller shuttle services would help complete the picture (though aren't quite on Ak horizons yet).

    Even if it takes another 30 years to deliver the whole network, it will never happen without protecting and planning development around the routes now.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19688 posts Report Reply

  • Alastair Thompson, in reply to Craig Ranapia,

    Canary Wharf damn right. And also central Canberra. What we don't want for Chch.

    Wellington • Since Nov 2006 • 220 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Hebe,

    Just read it as old-style marxism where the noble intelligentsia must channel the wishes of the duped proles.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19688 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to Hebe,

    what happens if the "suggestions" are ignored

    ECan shows you.

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19688 posts Report Reply

  • merc, in reply to Sacha,

    ECan shows you.

    Presumably using Powerpoint.

    Since Dec 2006 • 2471 posts Report Reply

  • Barnaby Bennett, in reply to Hebe,

    Hebe, you are right that it is a blueprint and not all the detail can be in there. What I am suggesting however is that they have worked out a lot of the detail but won't release it as it would muddy the good news of the announcement. Already today we have the Mr Brownlee implying that the council will have to start selling off assetts to pay for the plan that CERA and CCDU has just imposed on the council, and Warwick Isaacs in an interview suggesting PPP will dominate the development of the precincts. I'm a designer by trade and I understand that what emerges from these processes is not the result of a nice plan with great images, but the hard nuts and bolts of financial models and costings.

    Christchurch • Since Jul 2012 • 17 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to merc,

    guillotine

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19688 posts Report Reply

  • James Norcliffe,

    If Gerry says "sell" he'll have to grab Christchurch from my cold, dead hands...

    Christchurch • Since Sep 2011 • 7 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha, in reply to James Norcliffe,

    see previous comment :)

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19688 posts Report Reply

  • Hebe, in reply to Barnaby Bennett,

    I don’t think it’s that organised.

    Christchurch • Since May 2011 • 2896 posts Report Reply

  • Sacha,

    Would busways be a more palatable interim option than trams/rail?

    Ak • Since May 2008 • 19688 posts Report Reply

  • Idiot Savant, in reply to Hebe,

    what happens if the "suggestions" are ignored.

    They'll invoke their new Local Government Act amendments to roll the council and install a dictatorship, just like they did to ECan.

    Palmerston North • Since Nov 2006 • 1711 posts Report Reply

  • Allie, in reply to Hebe,

    I've been reading this site for ages but never signed up til now because there was never anything I wanted to say this much. But you've touched on a point that has long incensed me so here I am.

    Way back when CERA was first introduced people pointed out that they had accidentally not ruled out making CCC sell its assets. 'No no' they were told jovially, 'we didn't forget, but we're not going to do that so not to worry. We'll leave that little possibility in there because we'll never use it, okay?' 'But if you're not going to use it why not rule it out?' people asked in puzzled tones. 'It's okay, you all run along now; we won't use it but we'll leave it there.' and so that possibility was left sitting there just waiting its time. It was obvious right back then that this was on the agenda and that the government was carefully reserving for itself the ability to make CCC sell assets. I've just been waiting for the day when it would start happening and it looks like it's come. It may be 'suggestions' now but just wait, I'll bet forced sales will occur should the CCC keep being obstinate.

    New Zealand • Since Jul 2012 • 1 posts Report Reply

  • Ross Mason, in reply to Hebe,

    I noticed, and I am not making s judgment of any kind, that Ngai Tahu’s cultural centre appears to sit on the Crowne Plaza /Town Hall site.

    Its OK. It is in the liquefaction zone. They won' t be able to do anything with it. You know. Like they gave the Indians the Black Hills of South Dakota.....until someone white bugger found gold.

    Dear Chch: Hagley Park. Keep it green and open. It is priceless. Yes, there are bits added but more bits mean less treed and open spaces. FFS remember the motorway that was going to rape it?

    Lower Hutt is trying to take a park in Naenae for old folk flats.

    Dear Wgtn. You have a green belt. It is priceless. Yes, there are bits added but more bits mean less treed and open spaces.

    Dear Aucks. You are desperate for a green belt. You will have to can some residential areas to get it now. How sad.

    Light Rail: The streets of Chch are heaven sent for trams and light rail. Wide and handsome looping through and around connecting to the four points of the wind. If the plan can green belts of red zone, they can zap a bit more for the corridors where the wide roads ...well...aren't so wide.

    Upper Hutt • Since Jun 2007 • 1589 posts Report Reply

  • Lilith __, in reply to Sacha,

    Would busways be a more palatable interim option than trams/rail?

    Oh, for sure. I never thought leaving space for future rail was a bad idea, just that Chch is so much more compact than Auckland. Auckland is vast, and the bus service is (in my experience) lousy. Here, our bus service is already great, it's speedy and offering plenty of choice. if Chch continues to expand onto the plains, then rail will come into its own. At present there seems no real advantage for the huge cost.

    Dunedin • Since Jul 2010 • 3887 posts Report Reply

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