Hard News: "Creative" and "Flexible"
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The Univ of Canterbury self-appointed guardian of all that is Great and Good in culture--and a pox upon what might be popular and cheerful and ephemeral.
I know who he is. I'd still ask you to be less vague in terms of the specific Duttonish claims made here.
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Honestly, i'd feel the same way about any genre based public funded radio
Really? On principle, you'd shut down any "genre based public funded radio"?
Is news a genre, by the way?
Good points otherwise, however its not like there is a viable net based alternative for the delivery and quantifiable benefits of a good walk in a national park.
Ah, tramping, that thoroughly genre-based recreational activity, neither universally appealing nor regularly enjoyed by more than a comfortable minority (one might even call them an outdoorsy "elite," what with their specialised knowledge and fancy equipment and all that). But sure, keep the huts open, I don't mind helping to pay for them on the off-chance that someone I know might want to use them one day and might be otherwise unable to afford it. I'm democratic that way.
Hmm. I've just realised what's so dispiriting, indeed, gutting about this whole discussion. It's that if the (turn)tables were turned, and it was a state-funded cultural/musical institution dear to you lot that was threatened with extinction, I'm pretty sure the classically inclined crowd hereabouts would be defending it to the death. Because we can see the value of culture for culture's sake, even when it's not necessarily our cup of tea.
I'd have thought the courtesy was mutual. Once we had each other's backs. Now it's like you can't wait to stab Concert FM in the front -- and with such uninhibited glee. This is not what I marched for, dammit.
OK, I'mma let you finish, but Kanye has something to say, which is: can't we all just get along?? (N necessarily SFW, unless ladies bumping and grinding in their corsets are your thing).
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if the (turn)tables were turned, and it was a state-funded cultural/musical institution dear to you lot that was threatened with extinction . . .
Try me.
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I think what I mean is, you try us.
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(Was thinking of, say, a hypothetical state-funded hip-hop/Maori language/Pasifika radio - if such a thing existed, cost $5mil a year, and was threatened with extinction, I doubt you'd be hearing or indeed making the same arguments).
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Heh, Jolisa, that's fun. (Also, 'A Fifth of Beethoven': proof that the Saturday Night Fever soundtrack was the province of a bunch of elitists!)
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NIce Visuals .. thanks for that.
Is Public Address scared of Telecom or something? -
(Was thinking of, say, a hypothetical state-funded hip-hop/Maori language/Pasifika radio - if such a thing existed, cost $5mil a year, and was threatened with extinction, I doubt you'd be hearing or indeed making the same arguments).
The point I keep trying to make is there are a number of organisations funded from about $1.5m (Access Radio)to about $36m (Maori Television), and in there in the middle is the National Pacific Radio Trust at about $4m. Radio NZ, and Concert, make more sense when you see the overall ecosystem.
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. I'd still ask you to be less vague in terms of the specific Duttonish claims made here.
Just in terms of some of the judgements being made about cultural value/cultural capital (evoking Bourdieu) eg classical music is 'serious'. So, the rest is what? If we were truly egalitarian, should we not also be calling bfm to be fully funded, Sofie's soul music station to hit the airwaves (I would be an avid listener), a station for children's music etc etc?
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ust in terms of some of the judgements being made about cultural value/cultural capital (evoking Bourdieu) eg classical music is 'serious'.
Who said that?
So, the rest is what? If we were truly egalitarian, should we not also be calling bfm to be fully funded, Sofie's soul music station to hit the airwaves (I would be an avid listener), a station for children's music etc etc?
I'd be in favour of having more stations. I'm not sure why it would have to be all or nothing, which is another strong theme of the thread. But I'd also point out that some of the genres your advocating for are in fact at least represented on our airwaves. (And children music, that *can* actually be borrowed for free at least). The issue with the music played by the concert programme is that without the station it just wouldn't be there.
That said, I'm all for creating more publicly funded arts and music channels, no question about that.
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Quick calculation:
Concert FM receives $1 (or 2%) of the roughly $50 per capita in total that goes into public broadcasting schemes in New Zealand.
It also attracts about 5% of the radio audience in any given week.
Seem fair? Comment welcomed.
(edit: Maths fail. Corrected 5% to 2%)
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If we were truly egalitarian, should we not also be calling bfm to be fully funded, Sofie's soul music station to hit the airwaves (I would be an avid listener), a station for children's music etc etc?
As I keep pointing out, contemporary music for broadcast is funded at about the same level (slightly more, in fact) as Concert FM. Radio stations also receive additional NZ ON Air money for dedicated music programmes.
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Concert FM receives $1 (or 5%) of the roughly $50 per capita in total that goes into public broadcasting schemes in New Zealand.
$1 is 2% of $50.
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Comparing % of total broadcasting budget with % of radio listenership seems just a little creative.
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Who said that?
I was attempting to avoid naming names but Jan Farr did so some time back, and other less explicitly.
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Was thinking of, say, a hypothetical state-funded hip-hop/Maori language/Pasifika radio - if such a thing existed, cost $5mil a year, and was threatened with extinction
Well, as we all know it is impossible to listen to hip-hop in any other form than a taxpayer funded commercial free radio station, and that to force people to pay for their own Notorious BIG and Wu-Tang Clan albums is barbaric and inhumane. And it is important to me that other people are able to grow up and listen to The Chronic without being distracted by sponsorship announcements - after all, it's enjoyed by such a wide cross-section of society. So you got me there.
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$1 is 2% of $50.
And I knew that when I did it in my head, honest. Got stuck on that 5% number.
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I've just realised what's so dispiriting, indeed, gutting about this whole discussion.
That's part of it. I'm finding the fact that people are insisting other people take extreme positions on everything the more annoying bit. It can't go anywhere except an impasse when you're discussing the comparative merits of various arts, and the justification of funding them. Any consensus is simply a reflection of group prejudice, and will be harder and harder to establish as the group widens.
I'm horribly reminded of endless recountings I've heard from my sister of the various setbacks in her pursuit of funding. Everything about all of it just sounds so totally arbitrary. A group of people liked you or they didn't, that's the basic reality at the end of it, the reasons always seem to be tacked on afterward. One day they want you to have more popular appeal, the next they want you to be more original. Someone likes your anarchic style, someone else thinks it's fundamentally destructive and wrong.
I hate these kinds of debates. But I can't agree to zero funding, simply on the grounds that it means the destruction of a hard won public good. I don't want to justify which ones I think should be funded because that will just expose me as an art cretin. And ultimately I can't really quantify why Bach on the radio with no ads is worth taking a dollar out of some solo Mum's welfare budget. I just reckon that of the several hundred dollars I gave in taxes this week to that particular budget, one could surely be spared for public art. I can't find a theoretical model to frame this arbitrary feeling any more than I can find a good rationale for how much money I gave in charity this year.
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Dutton would have us believe that we evolved to like the art he likes. On the paleolithic savannah we acquired our taste for landscape which, oddly enough, would not be realised until the 18th Century. Art which does not fit with his notions of evolutionary psychology does not count as art. It is a pleistocene man argument.
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I was attempting to avoid naming names but Jan Farr did so some time back,
I know it's me but I'm buggered if I can find that comment.
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Well put, Ben. I have been persuaded by some--but not all of the cases being put forward here. Privately, I still think there is something wrong (and a wee bit arrogant) about privileging one music genre over another. Nevertheless, publically I would most probably defend the continuing existence of Concert FM if it is shown to be serving a public godo, its demise would cause great concern, people would be out of a job etc. As a compromise position, I would also support sensitive and appropriate underwriting or commercial sponsorship.
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Who said that?
Well, I approvingly quoted Jan Farr as saying that CONCERT music is serious, rather than 'classical' music.
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Rudman does not work for them, though, so the rules are as I said. Rag on your employer at your peril. Especially if your employer is a newspaper and your rag is a column in their rag.
OK, but I'm still waiting for the call from Radio Live management telling me to stop being rude about their headline talent or else.
In the end, I just find it hard to swallow the NZ Herald as the white knight riding to the rescue of public service broadcasting, when it's own track record when it comes to public service journalism when it holds a virtual monopoly in New Zealand's largest media market is so damn poor. I'd certainly applaud a little honest self-examination on that score.
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I know it's me but I'm buggered if I can find that comment.
Gio: it is back there, as a general refrain. I just don't want to personalise things, when it is the ideas which are so important here.
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Privately, I still think there is something wrong (and a wee bit arrogant) about privileging one music genre over another.
But don't we do that every day? Serious question -- and I'm glad, in an entirely self-interested kind of way, that NZoA keeps "privileging" Public Address Radio over any number of entirely worthy I'm sure applicants contesting a limited pool of funding.
FFS, I can't spend my Christmas book tokens without an existential crisis. My idea of hell would be serving on the board of Creative New Zealand or NZ on Air.
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