Hard News by Russell Brown

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Hard News: DNC 2016: Beyond weird, most of the way to scary

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  • James Littlewood*, in reply to Russell Brown,

    man up and declare for Trump!

    Well, he opposes the TPP, for one. I know, I know. Neither of them are really believable on this point. Not even to get started on TTIP or TISA.

    I look at the lunacy in the UK and I think, whew, at least our maniacal neocon tyrant hasn't fouled it up as badly as that, yet.

    Auckland • Since Mar 2008 • 410 posts Report Reply

  • Bart Janssen, in reply to Tristan,

    They can afford a protest vote and don’t much care about those that can’t

    The key therefore is to make sure those that can't afford it actually do vote - that will take a committed focused democrat machine.

    Disrupting that machine is the key to Trump winning.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 4451 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Zach Bagnall,

    Didn’t the emails show DNC staffers pushing negative stories to the press about Sanders’ religious views (in states sensitive to that topic)

    No, they showed one guy musing about it, no one taking it up and no evidence that anything of the kind ever happened. It's crap that anyone even had such a thought, but nothing actually happened.

    (Plus a much greater amount of plain old pissy attitude which is completely understandable – they’re human).

    Yeah. They were in a public snarling match with the Sanders campaign at the time.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22761 posts Report Reply

  • Dennis Frank, in reply to Russell Brown,

    So how many ways can we split this particular hair? You think the DNC chairwoman resigned because didn't try to subvert their internal democratic process? Or she resigned because her suggestions could be interpreted as attempted subversion by the Sanders supporters? Or do you think she resigned because the emails indicated she was suggesting subversion instead of actually doing it??

    Yeah Putin's a bad guy alright. The radiation poisoning is circumstantial evidence (technically) but the background on that & Putin's rise to power given us from hedge-fund entrepreneur Bill Browder's personal experience there is a must-read: http://books.simonandschuster.com/Red-Notice/Bill-Browder/9781476755748

    New Zealand • Since Jun 2016 • 292 posts Report Reply

  • simon g, in reply to Dennis Frank,

    She resigned because she did Politics 101: the best way to end calls for you to go, is to go. Anything else would have damaged the convention and the campaign (more than already). The job that really matters is not hers.

    Anyway, Michelle Obama, best first lady Ever.

    (OK, since Eleanor Roosevelt).

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1324 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to simon g,

    She resigned because she did Politics 101: the best way to end calls for you to go, is to go.

    Yes, and I gather her term would have effectively ended with the convention anyway. It does seem clear she managed the conflicts badly though. A streetfighter wasn't what they needed.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22761 posts Report Reply

  • SteveH, in reply to James Littlewood*,

    Well, he opposes the TPP, for one. I know, I know. Neither of them are really believable on this point. Not even to get started on TTIP or TISA.

    Clinton is also opposed to the TPP.

    If Obama can't get it ratified before he leaves office it might not get ratified by the US (unless the new Pres flip-flop, of course). Unfortunately that probably won't get us out of the crap the US insisted on adding as I can't see the other nations restarting negotiation.

    Since Sep 2009 • 444 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to SteveH,

    Clinton is also opposed to the TPP.

    If Obama can’t get it ratified before he leaves office it might not get ratified by the US (unless the new Pres flip-flop, of course).

    Sanders said the party had agreed to block attempts to get it through the lame-duck Congress. TPP is dead, basically.

    I actually suspect there's not going to be the desire to force anything on Obama's part either. It's fairly clear that this is a deal that no one likes enough to die in a ditch over.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22761 posts Report Reply

  • simon g,

    But the President played golf with our John! We have influence, we matter! We can get the deal done, can't we?

    Well, nobody seriously believes that New Zealand is even 1% as important as Congress in election year, so why do we pretend that we are? Why not acknowledge from the start that the TPP was going to live or die in Washington, and nothing we did would change that. Not even smiles at photo ops.

    Local political journos, looking at you.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 1324 posts Report Reply

  • Tom Johnson,

    Its hard to gauge discontent on booing, that's why we have to wait for polls more closer to the election.

    The election hasn't started yet. The polls now are very rough, historically they have been rough this far out. Also need to start breaking down the states, where the electoral votes are most vunerable and also a plan to recapture the congress.

    Trump is almost certainly going to be a very weak debater, it will be painful to watch. Bernie is somewhat of a surprise to the DNC, he took off with a brilliant real message that the inequality in the nation is its weakness. He has focused the dnc message. Clinton is a good choice for the DNC in 2016. She has the skills.

    hamilton • Since Mar 2016 • 98 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to simon g,

    Why not acknowledge from the start that the TPP was going to live or die in Washington, and nothing we did would change that.

    You know who did say that? Matthew Hooton.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22761 posts Report Reply

  • Nigel, in reply to Tristan,

    It's college.
    I think you're suggesting that only votes cast in hope of personal gain have real validity.

    Thankfully some people are in a position to exercise their judgement in favour of higher ideals than whether or not they will personally get a tax break.

    Or maybe you just don't like the look of a subset of Bernie supporters? Not sure which.

    Napier • Since Jul 2016 • 2 posts Report Reply

  • Nigel, in reply to Tom Johnson,

    I agree, but Trump will likely attack Clinton personally. I'm not sure his followers are looking for debate, just fight.
    Whereas Bernie seems to have a clean past after 30 plus years experience. Bernie would have reduced Trump to tantrums but now we'll never see it.

    Napier • Since Jul 2016 • 2 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Nigel,

    Whereas Bernie seems to have a clean past after 30 plus years experience. Bernie would have reduced Trump to tantrums but now we’ll never see it.

    Oh, I think his involvement with the Trotskyist Socialist Workers Party would have been an issue. It might not matter to you and me, but it would have been red meat for a Republican campaign. Michelle Goldberg wrote about it earlier in the year on Salon.

    The implications of his tax proposals have never really had a major public airing, because he wasn't the frontrunner, Clinton didn't want to go hard and it suited Trump to pretend to sympathise with him. The Atlantic looked at it in February. It would have been a bloodbath.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22761 posts Report Reply

  • Mick Rose,

    Let the screaming and tub-thumping commence: Trump!!! Cruz!!! Clinton!!! Sanders!!!

    I think Jill Stein is a far more impressive figure than any of them, but the faulty machinery of the US electoral process will ensure her voice is barely heard ...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jill_Stein

    Since Oct 2010 • 7 posts Report Reply

  • Tamara, in reply to Hilary Stace,

    Absolutely!!

    New Zealand • Since Oct 2010 • 115 posts Report Reply

  • SteveH, in reply to Tom Johnson,

    Its hard to gauge discontent on booing, that’s why we have to wait for polls more closer to the election.

    FiveThirtyEight said it was mostly the California delegation and that you couldn't really hear it from other parts of the arena. On the other hand, there were a LOT of protestors outside.

    Since Sep 2009 • 444 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming, in reply to Russell Brown,

    You know who did say that? Matthew Hooton.

    Stopped clock...

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2930 posts Report Reply

  • nzlemming,

    Waikanae • Since Nov 2006 • 2930 posts Report Reply

  • Shaun Lott,

    Nate Silver is still calling it for Clinton 60:40, but it's really hard to tell this far out, especially in this election. Will Trump attract more previous non-voters than the moderate Republicans and independents he scares off? That seems to me like an unknown unknown that is very hard to poll. I also see the logic in Michael Moore's comments. Remember the 1992 UK election, where even the exit polls had it for Labour... but John Major was returned. So I can well imagine what he calls "The Jesse Ventura Effect" happening. As Moore says: "...because of ... the anger that so many have toward a broken political system, millions are going to vote for Trump not because they agree with him, not because they like his bigotry or ego, but just because they can." The closer the polls are running, the bigger the danger of that scenario happening. The Democrats need to double down on getting their constituents to the polls.

    Waitakere • Since Aug 2009 • 111 posts Report Reply

  • Zach Bagnall,

    I just encountered someone outside the local thrift store with a clipboard asking people entering or leaving "Want to help stop Trump?". Every interaction I saw ended with the subject walking away calling "I don't want either of them!" over their shoulder. #anecdata

    Colorado • Since Nov 2006 • 120 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Mick Rose,

    I think Jill Stein is a far more impressive figure than any of them, but the faulty machinery of the US electoral process will ensure her voice is barely heard …

    I'd be more impressed by Stein if she didn't spend so much time (check her Twitter) drawing false equivalences between Clinton and Trump and praising Bernie or Bust. She's clearly, and I guess understandably, looking to co-opt the Sanders campaign, but it comes across a little cynical.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22761 posts Report Reply

  • Hilary Stace, in reply to Shaun Lott,

    For some forgotten reason I got on the Democrats mailing list. I get several emails a day telling me about the importance of voting, how to encourage everyone else to vote, how to buddy up with others to vote, surveys of latest voting intention, including personal messages from a range of influential people.

    So I think they are well aware of that.

    Wgtn • Since Jun 2008 • 3205 posts Report Reply

  • Dennis Frank,

    In terms of group psychodynamics, the campaign is driven by the interplay between perception & reality. I take Simon's point (re politics 1.01) that perception normally prevails. However perception that Hillary Clinton is merely the latest in a long line of Bilderberger glove puppets is sufficiently widespread now to motivate voters who don't like being controlled by a global elite.

    Sanders is an authentic socialist wearing a democrat flag of convenience. His support base is solid due to his authenticity. The other democrats are spooked by the socialist invader in sheep's clothing. His tactical switch to solidarity with Hillary is pragmatic, but will only persuade those in his support base who are likewise pragmatic - the principled folk will stay home in disgust. Thus the schism in the Democrat Party is likely to persist sufficiently to defeat Hillary. She has lacked authenticity since she was on the far right of the Republican Party in her youth.

    People are entertained by political smoke & mirrors but yearn for substance, because it's only the latter they can rely on. Cynics are realistic too, but more superficial than authentic folk. Humanity is a stream - most go with the flow but they all draw collective strength from those boulders that shape the flow...

    New Zealand • Since Jun 2016 • 292 posts Report Reply

  • Russell Brown, in reply to Russell Brown,

    Stein’s also not very popular with autism groups. This is from a recent profile in Elle, but she’s been saying versions of these words for a few years:

    I got involved as a mother and a medical doctor. I had been, for a while, very alarmed about the public health calamities that I was witnessing as a new doctor and a mother of young kids. There were these new epidemics of asthma and cancer and autism and diabetes and obesity. And I said to myself, ‘Hey, our genes didn’t change overnight.’ You know, my generation didn’t grow up with this.

    I got to work with community groups to try to fix some of the drivers of these public health epidemics—everything from poverty to pollution and bad food and unemployment and homelessness and all that—and worked very hard to get our elected officials to fix them, because it’s not rocket science to fix these problems. And I realized that reform was not going to come through the Democratic Party.

    Hmmm. Autism isn’t an “epidemic” and it’s not caused by bad food.

    Auckland • Since Nov 2006 • 22761 posts Report Reply

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