Hard News: In the Music
159 Responses
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i really thought we had all worked out that michael moore was a cringe inducing embarrasment and pretty much all out LIAR quite some time ago!?!?
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i really thought we had all worked out that michael moore was a cringe inducing embarrasment and pretty much all out LIAR quite some time ago!?!?
we had, but there was that pesky matter of what he said proving to be true, and that he backed up everything he said with documents.
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The whole arts issue in NZ is a lot more complex than you want to paint it and its cute that you chose to dismiss it as wingeing, but then its obviously not a central factor for you in your daily life, however to some people it is.
Actually, I think it's more complex than you choose to paint it. I don't mind you responding in strong terms, but the fact remains that the agencies you were impugning run a tight ship. They do not spend more on administering funding than they "dish out in support". That's nowhere near true.
My understanding of the 2003 Act was that it reduced the burden on publishers, by cutting the legal deposit requirement to two copies: one for preservation in the Turnbull and the other for access at the National Library.
Whatever, given the support that the law offers for the creation of original works through copyright, and the level of direct public support for the arts, it seems a reasonable sort of social contract; one common to countries like ours.
And legal deposit does not "only apply to the arts sector" -- it covers a huge range of documents, some of which cost rather more to produce than a CD.
You need to get the chip off your shoulder and think about what you're writing.
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ahhh no he LIED and in doing so scored a bit of an own goal!!.....bit of editing and hey presto!!!!....sure the point he was trying to get across was legitimate but his methods such as re-editing and his lack of following a chronological sequence of events in his films did more damage than good to the cause than the "socialist weasel" ever managed....George dubya manages to say the truth on the very odd occaision but that dosent mean im going to take on face value a word the evil bastard has to say!!!!
As for your "chip on the shoulder" "world owes me a living" bleating....sheesh get a life! The amount of $$$ that the local entertainment "industry"gets far out weighs the cost of having to hand over a couple of cds...they cost less than a dollar in terms of real physical unit cost...and quite frankly im sure there is plenty sitting in the archives that will be lucky to get even that once they are relegated to thier rightfull place in the warehouse bargin bins....they should feel lucky to be even wanted in a national archive!!!
the term is "Show Business" not "Show Art":)
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My understanding of the 2003 Act was that it reduced the burden on publishers, by cutting the legal deposit requirement to two copies: one for preservation in the Turnbull and the other for access at the National Library.
what reduced burden. I haven't heard hide nor hair of a legal requirement to deposit anything until the fancy booklet arrived in the post, (2 to 3 times if my memory serves me correctly) and prior to that the good old alexander turnball library came to the party every time with full retail purchases of 2 of everything this country made. they offered the cash and didn't ask for freebees. It seems funny and somewhat draconian
Why are you so pro this anyway. do you think there's too much money going to artists as it is? Do you think we as a country can't afford to give people their dues for their wares? Seriously, what would it cost and whats so offensive about my suggestion of paying for it. I know its not affecting your pocket, but think of some of your friends who it does affect, if you know any of the grass roots producers that are stringing it by the bones of their backsides.
If we can affort to piss money into the ocean for a shitty richman's boating race which we lost again!!! we ain't that poor a nation.And legal deposit does not "only apply to the arts sector" -- it covers a huge range of documents, some of which cost rather more to produce than a CD.
and that sucks too, (writing, photography, books and periodicals, print making and the like all qualifying as arts to me).
You need to get the chip off your shoulder and think about what you're writing.</quote>I pay for my chips, thank you very much, you go make your own. this isn't a charity, why treat it like it is.
I stand by my 'opinion' that we have a flawed funding system and amongst its failings are that it returns a proportionally bad result for the amount of money it costs to administer it. ie, I see a lot of employees, but I don't see much of a result as far as its stated aims and objectives.
Its charming that you chose the wonderful american media techniques of sidetrack the point and the intent of a comment with semantics. I don't for a second believe NZ on Air spend more than they administer but I do believe it is too much, which was my point (ignored) and more specifically they return very little for their staff level and their cost. ie must try harder, should do better. give us some of those figures specifically relating to music too. you quoted the ones relating to overall funding.
And while we're spelling it out, I'm making these comments specifically about music funding, I'll leave it to someone else to take issue with the amount of kiwi accents we see on our daily dose of soap opera, which does nothing for me but I have no problem with, but I'm sure others in the industry have issue with (mr stowell??)
As I said you're a surprisingly good journalist in the media and tech field and I give you respect for that, (a respect that you don't give others in their field of experience, as noted by your parting shot),so while we're throwing stones I personally found you were shit at music journalism (RIU letters pages were full of negative responses as I recall). I very rarely see any insight into the art of music in your music writing and thats always annoyed me, so I find it rich again that you see fit to de chip my shoulders.
You have an opinion on music and culture which is cool, but there are plenty of others who are equally or better equipped to make calls in this field than you, no offense meant. how about discussing the issues instead of shouting them down.
(ketchup??)
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ahhh no he LIED and in doing so scored a bit of an own goal!!..
examples?
As for your "chip on the shoulder" "world owes me a living" bleating....sheesh get a life! The amount of $$$ that the local entertainment "industry"gets far out weighs the cost of having to hand over a couple of cds.
you're missing the point and you obviously don't participate in the 'industry' you critique. The decision is this. do we value art in our society and want to see it sustainable and grow. if the answer is yes, then we have to accept a certain level of funding because it simply can't sustain the costs of operating to the level we want it to go.
More specifically do we value our own distinct take on art. Apparently the answer to that was yes as we set up a funding body to specifically target 'our voice our culture'
is that funding body targeting our voice our culture? apparently not, its targeting music that will fit into strict guidelines that are laid out by commercial radio programming, specifically, music that fits their formats. These funding decisions are made by those programmers, and while this does infact get increased airplay for "our sounds which sound like their sounds" it does not achieve the goal for which it was set up. Getting more kiwi accents playing kiwi stories on air, how ever unpleasant they may sound or however hard that might be.they cost less than a dollar in terms of real physical unit cost.
really???, where do you get yours made cos mine cost a shitload more than that to make.
some facts and figures, I know you hate em but ....Considering most are doing it cdr at the lower levels its closer to $6 a unit not including costs of recording, (in your cousins' case a computer and a cracked version of logic)
Manufactured you have to do a minimum of 500 all up costing maybe $3-5 depending on packaging, not including recording costs, (in your uncles case $40 grand at a studio cos they wanted to get that radio sound)
Currently the marketplace is in disarray so you're quite right, their little pieces of crap aren't selling so well, (downloading, competition with playstation, piracy in general) so each one of those 500 has to carry the weight of of the copies that aren't sold, lets say they sell 100, that means physical cost of each of the 100 is 5 times the unit cost. ie $15 -$25 not including recording costs (in your case, nothing cos you didn't record anything)and quite frankly im sure there is plenty sitting in the archives that will be lucky to get even that once they are relegated to thier rightfull place in the warehouse bargin bins....they should feel lucky to be even wanted in a national archive!!!
True true, thats what the country as a whole was saying about the music that now adorns hallenstiens ads. I guess the choice you've got to make is, just cos your country isn't savvy enough to recognise the worth of their culture at the time, should you discard it. Archives have got it partially right that it might, just might be worth saving for the next hallenstein's commercial, but dropped the ball on the message they sent out by royally decreeing the first 2 born children shall be theirs. What are we, third world poor?????, cheap assed mothers. I'm embarrassed for the message it sends out.
the term is "Show Business" not "Show Art"
:)scary, show biz refers to musicals, and if you don't recognise the art and culture in your music you don't deserve to have.
music is an artform that has an industry attached to it, they are separate. Art doesn't need industry to exist, but the music industry is incredibly shit with out art in it, but that's the kind of thing you'd expect a left wing liberal to say.
boomshanker! -
as for Mr Moores lies.... as im happily ensconsed on a couch and onto my fifth "Spitfire" (http://www.spitfireale.co.uk/advertising/index.htm) i cant be bothered to do any "hard" thinking or googling etc but just off the top of my increasingly murky head there is the well documented re-editing in bowling for columbine that took Charlie Hestons rant of "...from my cold dead hands" completely out of context and insinuated that he had made that brain fart immediately following the columbine shootings....Personally im in agrrement with the intent and message of moores exposure of the inequities and nightmares of modern society however i abhor the hypocricy of using outright lies just to make such a point.....however machiavelli would be proud im sure!!! Also see how open to scrutiny or interview the inane cap wearing tosser is....theres a good doco doing the film festival rounds at the moment...saw it last week in Fremantle so im guessing its in the auckland festival
and yes i do work in the "industry".....have done for 20 yrs now, Film, TV, Music, Theatre, Opera...the lot.....so i am well aquainted with the bitching, moaning, self promoting, hand out seeking denizens of said industries.....i am fully in agreement with govt financial support of the "arts"...however i constantly witness that money being pissed against walls by all sectors of the community not just the administrators....that aside, to resent having to make the pitifull return to the "hand that feeds" of a couple of mass produced units of ones commercial output is pathetic and selfish!!
and quite frankly if Shihad are "keen" enough to continue persuing a career that paid only $400 a week at their "peak" then they are hopefully not in it for the money (kudos to them), and if they are in it for the $$$ then they would appear sadly deluded and desperate!!! I personally get paid more than that for a days work on events they were, and are, part of....and im just a shit kicker tech-geek!
".....then we have to accept a certain level of funding because it simply can't sustain the costs of operating to the level we want it to go."
.....well then take that the next step and accept that a small price to pay for such public funding is a responsibility to fork over a couple of CD or whatever to the same people that forked out the funding in the first place.....the NZ public!!!as for costs for a cd i was meaning to indicate the cost to a musician/artist etc of handing over a couple of units to the archive..its not a lost sale....its just a CD with a few Os and 1s burnt on it....head down to the local kamakooza industries outlet and buy a spindle of 50......retail less than a dollar per disc!!!
Yes art dosent need industry to exist but if you want to make some $$$ (or a living) from it good luck doing so without it some "industry"
even my ale addled brain can see the glaring holes in your illogic!!!
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I'm enjoying your posts Robbery but I think you can't see the wood for the trees. You're complaining about being required/forced to give two copies of your work to the National Library/Archive. I don't think it should be a problem in the greater scheme of things. When you press 500 CD's how many do you give away as promo copies anyway? Would you charge radio if they wanted one of your CD's?
If the Govt Archive were to be req'd to purchase their two copies then I might be inclined to become an artist myself. And produce aural recordings of my body. And like all good art they would be limited editions, selling for $1000 a copy. By your logic the Archive couldn't deny me my retail price could they?I personally found you were shit at music journalism
heh heh heh
And you forgot to mention that he's got a face for the interweb. When he pops up on TV1's Breakfast the milk in my cornflakes curdles... -
i'm with you on the spitfires, well not really, i'm bored shitless and arguing with you is entertaining. but to your post
well documented re-editing in bowling for columbine that took Charlie Hestons rant of "...from my cold dead hands" completely out of context and insinuated that he had made that brain fart immediately following the columbine shootings....
is that the best you can do??
that heston thing was funny, its entertainment, like the daily show, they make their point from this shit cos the average smo just don't get it. its too bad Moore has to dumb his stuff down for the average american retard but that's the bain of living and making films in that country I guess. I wouldn't know, I live in another ill educated stupid country altogether......well then take that the next step and accept that a small price to pay for such public funding is a responsibility to fork over a couple of CD or whatever to the same people that forked out the funding in the first place.....the NZ public!!!
ahhh, you're assuming they fund everything. not the case. I'm happy for carly fxckin binding to fork a copy of her latest piece of dog turd to the library but I'm not talking about that. Tears indeed,!!!
I'm talking about your artsy wank shit, you know, the stuff that they put in hallensteins ads these days cos it reminds of the good old music we used to get puked on to in our youth.
That stort of thing but made by the irresponsible youth of today, who still don't get funding cos they don't fit the mold.as for costs for a cd i was meaning to indicate the cost to a musician/artist etc of handing over a couple of units to the archive..its not a lost sale....its just a CD with a few Os and 1s burnt on it....head down to the local kamakooza industries outlet and buy a spindle of 50......retail less than a dollar per disc!!!
please don't let me work for you :) did I not lay it out for you in enough detail.
ok, here you go,
1 x cd = $0.68 (inkjet printable of course)
1 x label print ink ($1.00, yeah that ink is expensive)
1 x jewel case ($0.80)
1 x cover printed - full colour 2 leaf 4 pg both sides plus inlay card
$1.80
factor in cd burner time etc maybe $1.50 a disc??
= $5.78
you're very cavilare with other peoples money and time but as I said. thats a disc and the costs to make it.They're not asking for a cdr burn they're not even asking, they're demanding 2 full copies of each disc delivered to their door, and that's just a little rude considering we pissed so much money as a nation away of a boat race.
and quite frankly if Shihad are "keen" enough to continue persuing a career that paid only $400 a week at their "peak" then they are hopefully not in it for the money (kudos to them), and if they are in it for the $$$ then they would appear sadly deluded and desperate!!!
and that there attitude is why you don't deserve to have em in your country. they're not doing it cos the think you deserve a free show mate,they're doing it cos they believe what they're doing is good, worthy of the attention they get. rich in any other country, mc donalds wage here.
hey you enjoy your job don't you, why don't you do it for shit wages. hopefully you're not in it for the money are you??? no, but a living and fair reward for your talents is part of it isn't it.
Yes art dosent need industry to exist but if you want to make some $$$ (or a living) from it good luck doing so without it some "industry"
even my ale addled brain can see the glaring holes in your illogic!!!
your logic isn't looking to strong there either my inebriated opponent.
What is it, you expect, a bunch of musicians doing it not for the money, hence no industry, or a bunch of musicians believing their contribution to our culture is worth something and expecting acknowledgment for that.
home again was voted near the top of a recent poll of best nz song, people stating it made them think of this country. be a shame if they'd not been so driven to write and record that baby, wouldn't, let alone be prepared to do it on a mcdonalds wage, but they were so it all worked out ok didn't it (except for those other kiwi classics which slipped through the cracks) -
the daily show et al make no claims of telling the absolute truth...they make it quite clear that they are making entertainment albeit with a political message....that bloated liar moore did what he did in that sequence not to entertain but to decieve!!!! theres plenty of other examples of the lies and manipulation of fact that moore has indulged in that quite frankly need not be gone into as it is boring.... if your getting your political infromation and opinions from the likes of him then thats perhaps his one saving grace. By getting an important message to the "masses" who are unable to do the reading/thinking to work it out for themselves....i.e morons!!! However.....it dosent excuse stooping to the same level as those he decries and accuses of themselves lying and decieving and manipulating the public.....
as for CD pricing.......to quote the old saying.....change your dealer!!!!......and im guessing the term you were looking for was "cavalier"
"and that there attitude is why you don't deserve to have em in your country. they're not doing it cos the think you deserve a free show mate,they're doing it cos they believe what they're doing is good, worthy of the attention they get. rich in any other country, mc donalds wage here."
1.good i never was a fan
2.if they think they are worthy of the attention then they got plenty of it....whether they are worthy of $$$ is up to the fans...and if that prooves lacking then its up to the taxpayer funded agencies..and if not then perhaps they were mistaken with their original assesment of their worth...natural selection would appear to be at work
3. they did go to another country...sold out and changed their name to be more commercially acceptable etc...didnt work out so now they are back getting govt assistance.....res ipsa loquitor!!!!
yes i at times enjoy my job....tho by and large i merely acknowledge its better than many!!!.....But im definitely in it for the money and the freedom of lifestyle the nature of the work affords me!! im one of those suckers shoving shit into boxes long after talent has "left the building"....crap stella from the band ryder in hand!!!....i dont begruge that... just trying to point out its a shit job at times!!!
home again was voted by a limited representative population of respondents to a poll...many of which no doubt were lurching around the viaduct basking in the refelected glory of "our boys" in team NZ...(the same "bloody boat race")....or sitting in some god awfull kiwi pub in london....watching same said vile floating indulgence
isnt...all this "expecting acknowledgement" by bands somewhat akin to the archive "expecting" their copies.....
i dont expect anything from musicians....they owe me nothing.....the same way they are owed nothing just for creating something...whatever its artistic value is.....its great they do get something in return but if thats their only motivation then they can "expect" to be either disappointed or play the game and fork over the miserable 2 cds!!
art on its own can and should have nothing to do with $$$$ artists should be producing works in order to express themselves or perhaps motivate or "move" its recipient/audience....but in reality the $$$ are needed to facilitate its existance even if its just to "make a living"....once $$$ do become involved you have a transaction.....therefore some form of commercial activity or "industry".....
whats the big deal about such a small "tax" to keep the game going???
were talking about "releases" here arent we??....copies of ones artistic output that is produced in order to hopefully make some $$$ not as a public service....as for any glaring holes in my addled logic....its spitfire# 6 now....whats your excuse??
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what reduced burden. I haven't heard hide nor hair of a legal requirement to deposit anything until the fancy booklet arrived in the post, (2 to 3 times if my memory serves me correctly) and prior to that the good old alexander turnball library came to the party every time with full retail purchases of 2 of everything this country made. they offered the cash and didn't ask for freebees. It seems funny and somewhat draconian
Who knows? I went and looked up the legislation and that's what it said. Your mileage may vary.
But, again, you were completely wrong to claim that legal deposit "only applies to the arts sector", and I remain of the view that legal deposit is an entirely conventional and reasonable quid pro quo for the protection and support of the creation of original works.
I've happily complied with it as an independent publisher (and if you think the money in music sucks, try independent book publishing). It serves the public good.
Its charming that you chose the wonderful american media techniques of sidetrack the point and the intent of a comment with semantics.
Eh?
I don't for a second believe NZ on Air spend more than they administer
Well why did you say this then?
but then it wouldn't be a government funding body if it didn't spend more on administering its funding than it dished out in support.
That's what you said, it was wrong, I took issue.
As I said you're a surprisingly good journalist in the media and tech field and I give you respect for that, (a respect that you don't give others in their field of experience, as noted by your parting shot),so while we're throwing stones I personally found you were shit at music journalism (RIU letters pages were full of negative responses as I recall). I very rarely see any insight into the art of music in your music writing and thats always annoyed me, so I find it rich again that you see fit to de chip my shoulders.
You have an opinion on music and culture which is cool, but there are plenty of others who are equally or better equipped to make calls in this field than you, no offense meant. how about discussing the issues instead of shouting them down.
Thanks for the review; I won't bother being as rude in return, but I feel bound to note that I've spent many thousands of my own money on recorded and live music.
I think there are flaws in the music funding system and we've discussed them on this site at some length. But that really doesn't have much to do with most of what you're saying here.
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Okay robbery, what happened that affected you in the 2003 Act was that the definition of a "document" in the act was (quite rationally) extended to include electronic documents, such as CDs (and, for that matter, websites - the National Library may even harvest this actual discussion). At the same time, the number of copies required was reduced from three to two.
So yes, you're down $12 per new release for legal deposit for posterity. Join the club: legal deposit currently applies in more than 130 countries, and has done for many years. I'm quite sure the Turnbull will have a useful purpose for the money it has saved.
At the same time, the music on the Hallensteins ads you keep mentioning is earning its creators a fairly large cheque. This is possible because the state protects their copyrights by law. That's the social contract.
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what reduced burden. I haven't heard hide nor hair of a legal requirement to deposit anything until the fancy booklet arrived in the post, (2 to 3 times if my memory serves me correctly) and prior to that the good old alexander turnball library came to the party every time with full retail purchases of 2 of everything this country made. they offered the cash and didn't ask for freebees. It seems funny and somewhat draconian
I think you'll find that the reason that legal deposit is required from the publisher, not the archive, is that there's no way archive staff would know about more than 10% of what is published in NZ if they had to go out and find it all themselves. They're not that well funded, and if we want to have a good historical record of culture, then people need to front up with what they produce.
Personally I'm astonished that they've gone out and bought music previously. I've had to hand over copies for years of publications just because that's what you do. There will be massive gaps of 20th century NZ music if they've just had to go out and find it at the local music store.
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You have an opinion on music and culture which is cool, but there are plenty of others who are equally or better equipped to make calls in this field than you, no offense meant.
Well, there's a whole bunch of them are over at nzmusic.com, have been debating the finer points of NZOA funding for about 6 years (every time another funding round is announced), and most of your arguments would trigger a bout of eye-rolling and a whole swathe of references to old topics. You've previously made a few good points in another PA thread, but generally your complaints have already been addressed and re-hashed numerous times in far more relevant fora by far more rational people.
how about discussing the issues instead of shouting them down.
How about not turning Russell's offhand observation about a gig into an anti-NZOA soapbox? It's so old.
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I've found this conversation both fascinating and confusing at the same time.
As a muso myself I struggle to understand the seething resentment to providing a couple of copies of your work to the respective authorities. We tend to do so as a standard - didn't even realise there was a law requiring it - and we've always provided our material for free to them as standard too. I find it quite confusing as to why someone would not wish too - and more to the point why quibble over less than $20 in costs?
Part of my confusion about this seething resentment is that I see CD's to be very much a side product of music - we give away more music than we sell because it makes good business sense to do so (one of the reasons you can now buy the DOL on Itunes apparently - once we showed LOOP that the "word" was out there they came to the party). The more people who are aware of us means the more people coming to our gigs - which means more money (as gigs are easily more profitable than CD sales) and even the onselling of the original recordings at shows (yes people who have downloaded your music will also buy it if they like it).
I haven't even touched NZonAir as thats another cup of tea altogether (that we opt to not get involved with).
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It occurs to me, that if you are a creative person, and want copyright protection to stop your works being ripped off.... it would be really handy to have some sort of proof that you are indeed the originator of any given work... some sort of official record of what you've made.... so anything new can be compared to it to make sure its not a copy or your stuff.
If you didnt have such, someone could copy your stuff, and then accuse you of copying them...
it occurs to me, that if you are such a creative person, giving a copy of your work to an official archive might actually be in your own interest?
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you mean like if you were in a band and you recorded some demos but then after the demo CD was recorded you were out of the band cos the guy that started the band got a record deal based on that demo CD but then decided he wanted to be a solo artist and the rest of you oh well tough luck gee all I've got left to show for my efforts is this copy of the demo CD what can i do with it? oh I see now he's gone solo he's not only chucked out the band but also chucked out all the songs we recorded and come up with some new ones so i guess there's no harm in my placing these demo songs on a North American website to see, just for fun of course, how much money I can make. I'll just change the name of the songs and the band and say we come from Seattle originally but are now based in LA and probably no-one in NZ will ever know especially since Solo Boy has already crashed and burned ...
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I'm enjoying your posts Robbery but I think you can't see the wood for the trees.
There's an element of truth in that IO. I'm so up to my neck in prunings I can't actually be bother getting involved in it.
You're complaining about being required/forced to give two copies of your work to the National Library/Archive.
i'm not complaining, I'm wingeing, I thought russell had quite clearly established that any opinion on any topic which is not his own and he does not hold dearly to his heart cos it affects him directly is wingeing. I'm glad i've comprehended that clearly now cos it makes life a lot simpler.
The issue is the insult. not the cost of a disc.its another "fxck you" to a bunch of people I hold in high regard. (they're some of your friends russell but then you always were a "guest list" kinda guy)Have you ever wondered what happened to the stars of your youth mate. Apart from the few who still manage to hold their head up and do their happy monkey routine most of them are bitter about how they were treated. I can tell you where many of them are and what they're doing, and its not doing what they were good at.
When you press 500 CD's how many do you give away as promo copies anyway? Would you charge radio if they wanted one of your CD's?
Who's pressing??? I know many labels and hardly any releases are passing the 100 mark these days. Yeah we've got our fat freddys which everyone likes to name drop but this industry wasn't very healthy to begin with and its certainly not getting better with the modern challenges of technology and the piracy it brings. and no ones found a satisfactory solution to the issue, no matter how technology commentators might like to paint the bright future.
For me right now, the charity has ended. no one gets anything for free. there are only 2 radio stations in this country that rate a mention these days and its wholely humbling that one is programmed by and ex mocker, and the others the national program!!!! my mum listened to that station!!!!!.
heh heh heh
And you forgot to mention that he's got a face for the interweb. When he pops up on TV1's Breakfast the milk in my cornflakes curdles...I don't know bout that. he's kinda cute in a grizzly bear kinda way.
Having watch a bit of breakfast tv lately have you noticed the shocking level of people they're passing off as experts. god help us if anyone was actually watching and believed those people.
Stick to the cooking and gray bartlett covers please.(accompanied by a miming brendan dugan of course) -
the daily show et al make no claims of telling the absolute truth...they make it quite clear that they are making entertainment albeit with a political message...
oh you so don't get it.
its the most truthful bit of non journalism out there and that's the saddest thing about it. they only get to do that because they mask it all as entertainment, and it is, but take away moore and stewart how and you wouldn't be getting much more than propaganda out of america. -
he's kinda cute in a grizzly bear kinda way
Aha! I suspected that beneath all the sniping you had a secret crush on him.
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that bloated liar moore did what he did in that sequence not to entertain but to decieve!!!!
and there we have it. the fat jibe. I was waiting for that one.
he's not pretty to look at, no, but he does represent his people :)and would you like some of my ketchup to eat with your chips on youe shoulder. sheesh, the man is trying to make a point to stupid america, you think that's easy?? your one example of his evil lying is something to do with some gun loving red neck getting misrepresented??
cry me a river. like it actually painted that western relic in a worse light than he actually was.
you want to trash Michaels Moore's whole effort in documentary making based on that? bogg his valid and lets face it brave (stay away from light planes man!!) statements down in fat jokes? -
i dont expect anything from musicians....they owe me nothing.....
i'll remember that the next time it comes to pay you., just kidding, sort of.....
the same way they are owed nothing just for creating something...whatever its artistic value is.....its great they do get something in return but if thats their only motivation then they can "expect" to be either disappointed or play the game and fork over the miserable 2 cds!
you're missing the point, I'm not saying they expect something in return. I'm saying that to pass into law with penalty of fine a requirement like this one is insulting. you may not respect their artistic endeavours and their right to be rewarded for it, but apparently that's what copyright and apra was set up to protect, although apparently all of that is going out of fashion.
its not the miserable cds, its the law and the $5000 fine.
hey, ask for copies for your library, that's cool, but pass it into law and threaten, well even a liberal hating gun loving amercian health care ass kissing redneck like yourself has got to summons up some of your pioneering spirit against that, surely,on a side note did you know moore directed an actual actor movie called canadian bacon. apparently it was shit. wouldn't know, never saw it.
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i'm not complaining, I'm wingeing, I thought russell had quite clearly established that any opinion on any topic which is not his own and he does not hold dearly to his heart cos it affects him directly is wingeing. I'm glad i've comprehended that clearly now cos it makes life a lot simpler.
Sigh ... if it makes you happier. let's say that you were, in my opinion, advancing some complaints that seemed mean-spirited and not very well founded.
The issue is the insult. not the cost of a disc.its another "fxck you" to a bunch of people I hold in high regard (they're some of your friends russell but then you always were a "guest list" kinda guy)
For goodness sake, is this sort of nasty cheap insult in every post really necessary? Did I give you a bad review in 1983 or something?
FWIW, I did get a +1 for the gig I wrote about in the post above. I wouldn't have asked, but Jim emailed and offered. I guess he was grateful for the time I'd put in meeting with him, helping plan the campaign, getting Karajoz involved, and offering a cheap rate for the advertising (which applies to all music advertisers here). I chucked in a free big banner for a week when I discovered the placement was available, and I paid for the new artwork myself.
I'm working on another little project to help local independent artists with sales and profile too. Hopefully that'll happen in the next month or two.
Have you ever wondered what happened to the stars of your youth mate. Apart from the few who still manage to hold their head up and do their happy monkey routine most of them are bitter about how they were treated. I can tell you where many of them are and what they're doing, and its not doing what they were good at.
"Happy monkey routine"? Is there anyone else you'd like to pour anonymous excrement on? Frankly, if your behaviour here is indicative of your conduct in the real world, I'm not terribly surprised you're struggling. Pull up, dude.
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1.good i never was a fan
you're not good at lateral thinking are you. I don't personally care about shihad and I'm sure they'd be horrified to know we were discussing the private matter of their income when they just want to keep their heads down and do it while they still give a shit.
its not about the individual band, it a about recognising culture and its value to us as a society.
keep it with all blacks and beer if you like but I was inspired by some of these musical people and I'm prepared to speak up and say it means something, apparently some governmental types a long time ago recognised the importance of our voice our culture. too bad they hired some idiots with shit music taste an inabilitity to recognise the 'our' part and get the job done. -
if your unable to see the difference between the SATIRICAL entertainment basis of the Today show etc and the factually incorrect, outright lies, and deception of Moores "Documentaries" (as entertaining as they may seem) then you really are "the missing link....goodbye!"
do you think moores output is anything but propoganda??? it just happens to correlate with your preconceptions.....which by the way are most likely right.....but by intentionally decieving and manipulating his audience the way moore has been clearly shown to do he has lowered himself to the level of the scum he rails against!!!
moore uses deciet to prove a point
stewart uses satire to achive the same resultboth entertain and both push the same message.....its just one has some honour in doing so!!!
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