Hard News: Jonesing
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I think it's pretty revealing that one of the main things lots of Cunliffe people seem to see in Cunliffe is a chance to fuck over everyone in the party that's not on their side. Some of this is clearly structural --- i.e if Cunliffe's going to reward his mates he has to demote people --- but it's really unattractive.
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(Aside from that:)
Just got back from the Christchurch meeting. Robertson owned the room, detailed grasp of policy, and the announcement re: rent stabilisation was very well received. Cunliffe did well but didn't have a grip on earthquake policy, clearly rattled by Robertson's bold move, and Jones, well, it's a good thing he's got a sense of humour because he's got to be having a laugh.
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Rob Stowell, in reply to
if Cunliffe’s going to reward his mates he has to demote people — but it’s really unattractive.
This is sad.
If Cunliffe is elected, would you support his leadership? If he loses, would you support him as deputy?
Do you believe Cunliffe, if elected, would be so stupid as to reward all his supporters in caucus and demote his opponents? If he did, he'd lose the next election and get rolled, and he'd deserve it.But half-a-grain of brain indicates it's stupidity on a stick, and everything Cunliffe has said publicly indicates he's not proposing to do any such thing.
I dunno. Like the last Labour leadership, I don't come as a partisan. I'd be happy with Robertson or Cunliffe.
But again, Cunlifffe seems the stronger choice (this time far less clearly, but still.) And Robertson supporters appear to be starting to play nasty (again). On the one hand, innuendo, on the other, naked loathing. Of the two sides 'Team Cunliffe' have played the better team game.
It's ugly. And mystifying.
It could only be justified if Cunliffe is truly so vain, stupid and self-serving he'd inevitably come a massive cropper, taking the party out for several elections. And that's a mighty supposition.
I understand partisan passion, but the lack of infighting has been a big plus so far. It'd be horrible to watch that thrown away. -
Keir Leslie, in reply to
Of course I'll support Cunliffe if he's elected --- he'll have a mandate to lead the party to 2014 and if he does well, beyond. I certainly don't think Cunliffe's running in order to implement a purge. And I don't think he's pushing it, either.
But that seems to be what's getting Bradbury off, and he's not the only one. Look at the Standard and the Daily Blog and the pretty much continuous campaign of vilification against MPs who don't back Cunliffe. Hilary Stace got screamed at there for suggesting Ruth Dyson was a pretty decent Minister. It's really not where I want my party to go. (Or take the Cosgrove stuff Russel posted above.) Hell, even Scott Yorke was talking about demoting Curran.
Anyway, that's enough about the negativity from some of the more, ahem, unpleasant sectors of the internet. I think this process has been great, and I think all the candidates impressed. I certainly think more of all of them than I did before this.
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BenWilson, in reply to
But that seems to be what’s getting Bradbury off, and he’s not the only one. Look at the Standard and the Daily Blog
There's truth in that. But they have no power. Soon, they'll probably finally have Cunliffe and the rivers will not flow with milk and honey. Hopefully the baying for blood dies down as the guy knuckles down for the campaign.
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Did I get this wrong, did Jones just dismiss Curran's tweet on the grounds that "it must be that time of the month"? way to go wanna-be PM alienating half your potential voters
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Deborah, in reply to
Yes. There's a reason for the big gender split in Jones' support.
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Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to
Yes. There’s a reason for the big gender split in Jones’ support.
Still, what Curran did was not helpful at all and what Jones does isn't either. One of the reasons I don't tweet, always feels like gossip. Plus, I think the Cunliffe team must be trying real hard this time because of the in house efforts last time so I can, in a sense understand a strategic thinking when there are more obstacles for him by the sounds of things.Methinks I'm gonna fire off emails. Trev has done well to go to watch the yacht race. :)
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Hebe,
My view of Shane Jones -- as a non-Labour member who party-votes Green but often votes for Labour electorate MPs -- is non-negotiable. He's a pig: either a calculating politician who has run the numbers and found an obnoxious centre in which to pitch his tent, or simply a pig. I suspect the former, which gives even less reason to respect him. He is either pitching for a Cabinet post or about to leave Labour and set up elsewhere. Whatever, this leadership contest for Jones is about Jones, not the Labour Party or the greater good of NZ.
BTW: Cunliffe polarises people; I don't know why. I have Labour (not politician) friends who love him and others who loathe him, no-one I know is moderate in their thoughts about the man. Could be a good thing, could be a bad thing.
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Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to
Hebe, we know what most people on PAS think of Jones and for why. You’d be better telling him what you think. Maybe he could learn something. It does feel like good guy bad guy with Robertson and Jones. It’s now really obvious that Curran doesn’t like Cunliffe. What good has that done the party? Nothing but shitstirring for others to mock them. First thing Key will bring up next Tuesday in Question time. Each potential Leader had the right to do what Cunliffe did so why the hooha? Totally unnecessary.IMO
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Shane last night clearly was not a contender. "The taniwha from the North", as he called himself more than once, had all the right phrases but couldn't assemble them into a coherent stream of sentences. It was like listening to a pretty good best man's speech at a boozy wedding reception.
Having said that, I actually left with a better impression of him than before. Now I get where the "he can connect" stuff comes from, because he does have the gift of the gab and a great dramatic delivery. When he is doing oratory he is at his best. Politics is a performing art, this is one of the skills, and he has it.
But on behalf of "geldings" everywhere, I ranked him 3.
I agree with Keir that Grant did best on the night. I suspect the room was tilted towards him anyway, and it's always easier to work a room that's already on your side. Of the three though, he seemed to me to answer more questions head on rather than side-stepping to just say what he wanted.
For something that purported to be a contest, it seemed oddly collaborative. They know each other's jokes, they refer to each other's answers positively. So the repeated stress on unity rang fairly true on the night.
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Hilary Stace, in reply to
It seems bizarre to me that Ruth Dyson's record as Minister for Disability Issues needs to be defended. I lived through that era and I observed Ruth's hard work and dedication to the sector. Just some examples (for historic accountability purposes), NZ Disability Strategy ensures government policy is underpinned for the first time by the social model of disability, closure of last institution (Kimberley), closure of exploitative sheltered workshops, NZ Sign Language became an official language, development of carers strategy, significant input and leadership by NZ into UN Convention on Rights of Persons with Disabilities, and NZ won the International Roosevelt Disability award for leadership on disability issues. Lots more to do but that is a pretty good record.
I suggest keeping away from The Standard at the moment. There are some quite appalling ageist, sexist and homophobic comments, and a pretty uncompromising tone.
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Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to
Thanks.
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Joe Wylie, in reply to
Look at the Standard and the Daily Blog and the pretty much continuous campaign of vilification against MPs who don’t back Cunliffe. Hilary Stace got screamed at there for suggesting Ruth Dyson was a pretty decent Minister. It’s really not where I want my party to go.
As it happens, Ruth Dyson's electorate committee chairman writes a regular column on Chch issues for The Daily Blog.
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Stephen Judd, in reply to
I suggest keeping away from The Standard at the moment
It's an echo chamber. Rumours are recycled into solid fact, some MPs are the Antichrist or Satan, every setback for Cunliffe is a conspiracy, the people you like are selfless and the ones you don't are troughers. On the other hand, it shows that Kiwiblog has no monopoly on gutter politics comments.
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Stephen Judd, in reply to
If James wrote a DB post about why he favoured Grant* the local commentariat would be calling him a quisling in no time flat.
*hypothetically.
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Sofie Bribiesca, in reply to
It seems bizarre to me that Ruth Dyson’s record as Minister for Disability Issues needs to be defended. I lived through that era and I observed Ruth’s hard work and dedication to the sector.
Which can explain why Cunliffe thinks Dyson would be good for earthquake recovery . Everyone down there is vulnerable whether they know it or not. I think she would do well too.
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Hebe, in reply to
why Cunliffe thinks Dyson would be good for earthquake recovery
Given Cunlffe doesn't seem to know much about about Christchurch and the earthquake recovery, I would be taking advice on that if I were him.
All the Chch Labour MPs have done outstanding work on that front: Dyson, Dalziel, Cosgrove, and when in Burns: I couldn't choose between them. They have all worked themselves ragged. How about whoever wins, asks the local party about what and who is best rather than more top-down Wellington control?
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Joe Wylie, in reply to
Which can explain why Cunliffe thinks Dyson would be good for earthquake recovery . Everyone down there is vulnerable whether they know it or not. I think she would do well too.
Of course she's currently in that role, along with Clayton Cosgrove, since Lianne Dalziel's departure forced a reshuffle. So far she's been rather quieter than I'd hoped, with Cosgrove scoring a real hit with his use of his MP's privilege to force the EQC to hand over the information that they'd previously tried to exorbitantly charge WECAN for. Nevertheless Dyson has regularly turned up to most protest events, and she spoke well at the anti-GCSB event in the Square.
That Dalziel was effectively nobbled as earthquake recovery spokesperson for most of Shearer's time as leader is an indication of how cynical Party infighting can be. Cosgrove was one of the more engaged local MPs on earthquake issues right through 2011, yet despite being a Shearer supporter he was sin-binned for protesting Cunliffe's banishment to a minor role.
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Hebe, in reply to
For something that purported to be a contest, it seemed oddly collaborative.
That's positive to read. I'd like all you Labourites to present me with a credible and organised alternative to National. That's all.
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Stephen Judd, in reply to
The horses are being led to water.
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Labour's tried to move away from having one "earthquake spokesperson" to having spokespeople covering aspects of eq issues -- so, for instance, Megan Woods is Chch transport, covering bits of eq recovery. Also, remember, almost certainly the quake-related portfolios will get reshuffled following the East by-election.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
That’s positive to read. I’d like all you Labourites to present me with a credible and organised alternative to National. That’s all.
+1
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Keir Leslie, in reply to
It's kinda sad. I'm not against robust debate, but I'd prefer it come with more facts and less weird conspiracy theory.
Also, here's a pretty good round-up of reactions to the speeches in Christchurch, via The Press.
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Russell Brown, in reply to
Did I get this wrong, did Jones just dismiss Curran’s tweet on the grounds that “it must be that time of the month”? way to go wanna-be PM alienating half your potential voters
I thought Curran's behaviour was unhelpful (and not for the first time). But ... jesus.
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